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Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

Last post 01-03-2009, 5:51 AM by TheCait. 11 replies.
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  •  10-24-2008, 6:38 AM 237715

    Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    Hello everyone!

    Since the original thread by kagei our moderator has been posted, there has been some progress being made on getting the Vista compatibility added. We were able to setup some testing configuration in-house and would like to share our findings.

    Currently, as it stands, Trickster Online Revolution does not officially support Windows Vista as seen on the download page. However, that doesn't mean we are not working on it but supporting an entirely new generation of OS can have it's challenges. That being said, I would like to share our test results and collect some helpful information from the players to further accelerate Vista support for Trickster Online.

    Trickster Online currently works with Windows Vista 64-Bit editions. Some of our really outdated clients may receive error message when trying to install. If this is the case, go to the download section and download the latest build OR change the installation destination folder to 'X:\Trickster Online'(X being the drive you want to install to) or any other folder name you wish to desire.

    Here is the Windows Vista 64-Bit configuration tested.
    - HP dv6933cl Laptop w/ Windows Vista Home Premieum 64-Bit
    - All the latest drivers updated both through Windows Update & HP's own updater
    - All the latest Windows Updates installed including latest DirectX
    - Trickster Online is installed to C:\Trickster Online

    Installation, patching, playing with full sound and graphical effects have no problem so far. The test setup had following Windows configuration.

    - UAC was turned off
    - Windows Firewall was turned off
    - No extra spyware or anti-virus software was installed. However, Windows Defender(comes with Vista) was running in the background

    - Windows account was an administrator account.

    Sound problem with 32-Bit has been a known compatiblity issue and has been confirmed by in-house testing as well. There is no definite answer as to when 32-Bit Vista will be compatible but this is verified test case and we are continuing to work with various teams to add 32-Bit compatibility.

    If you have purchased a retail copy of Vista, then you can obtain 64-Bit disc of Vista for a small shipping fee. There is an insert included with the packaging on how or where to go to obtain 64-Bit disc. However, you should carefully evaluate and consider before upgrading to 64-Bit Vista as it may end up causing more compatiblity issues for other programs installed on your computer. If you have an OEM version, you may want to look for an instruction which may have been included with your computer purchase or contact the computer manufacturer for more information on obtaining 64-Bit disc should you decide to do so. Or some of you may already have 64-Bit pre-installed if your computer has more than 4GB of ram.

    If you have a smooth Trickster playing experience with Vista 64-Bit, I'd love to hear what your computer spec & configuration are. If you have Vista 64-Bit but Trickster Online is somehow not working with similar configuration as above, please feel free to post any or all the information you can provide. For 32-Bit users, we are still working on it. Please be patient.

    Now if anything I've posted above are something you are not familiar with, I strongly advise not to attempt it yourself and consult a computer professional.


    Trickster's 2nd Most Popular GM
  •  10-24-2008, 7:44 AM 237722 in reply to 237715

    Re: Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    So limited compatibility has been achieved, but at what cost?  According to GM_Chaos's testing notes:

    - UAC was turned off
    - Windows Firewall was turned off
    - No extra spyware or anti-virus software was installed. However, Windows Defender(comes with Vista) was running in the background

    - Windows account was an administrator account.

    UAC, as annoying as it is, is actually a pretty strong defense against unauthorized programs running with elevated privileges.  Turning it off is like driving with your top down and having your car rained in.  You had a mechanism to keep your nice leather seats dry but just failed to use it.

    Another common "workaround" for games is to turn off your firewall.  Disabling your firewall on your computer (unless you have an additional firewall between you and the internet) disables another layer of security and opens you to worm attacks - especially if you don't have the latest operating system patches.

    Probably the most common "workaround" I see used in conjunction with games is to disable anti-virus and spyware detection engines.  While some gamers are IT professionals - the vast majority are not.

    The point of user accounts and security best practice is to not run everything as root (Administrator).  At this point - considering you've disabled UAS, firewall, antivirus/spyware, and you're running programs as an administrator, it's like you're walking into a gunfight without a bulletproof vest.  Circumventing every security feature your computer has is like BEGGING for it to be compromised.

    An upgrade to a 64 bit OS (if the user is not already running it) is also begging for compatibility issues.  If the machine and its hardware were not made for Vista 64 bit, the experience on the user will not be pleasant.  It's akin to installing (any version) Vista on a machine you built 4 years ago.  Drivers weren't designed for the operating system, hardware cannot support the OS, and you're better off sticking with what you have.  I would highly recommend that anyone check with their computer manufacturer before installing Vista 64 bit.  If you install it and they don't support it then you will void your support term and warranty in most cases.  This means, if something goes wrong, Dell/HP/whoever will not, and is not legally bound to, help you with your problem.

    This isn't a slam against Chaos or Ntreev, but it is an attack against the methods most publishers use in addressing problems with their product.  If a driver has a problem with his car's brakes, you don't just remove the brakes and consider it fixed (at least don't do it in the state of California because I don't want to meet them on the road).  I can definitely appreciate Chaos' warning about compatibility of the 64 bit OS but I don't think he adequately expressed the gravity of upgrading a system that is not designed or supported to handle it.

    Regarding the 32 bit version of Vista and the sound issue - I have isolated this problem to GameGuard.  If I start a game and prevent the execution of GameGuard, the sound works completely fine.  Not only that, but system resource utilization is a fraction of what it is with GameGuard running.  As a self-defense note, I have *never* actually connected to Trickster Online or any other game with GameGuard/cheat protection engines disabled.  I discovered this quite by accident when GameGuard failed to load once.

    Quite a few points in here were addressed in my recent blog, Spyware, Rootkits, and Online Games.



    New MMO - Trapster Online
  •  10-24-2008, 8:28 AM 237730 in reply to 237722

    Re: Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    tl:dr, disabling or completely don't have any protection is like, you wearing ...nothing, just butt-naked with no cloth on, while you're riding/speeding with a motorcycle.

     

    In this case, clearly, it's not Vista's problem [anymore], check other games with LATEST GameGuard module installed, lets say, your own game, GrandChase, is using LATEST GameGuard module [rev 1xxx], while...Trickster Online, still using OUTDATED GameGuard module [rev 9xx] that HAVE A LOT PROBLEMS, such as memory overflow problems, over memory usage, over CPU resources usage [99% CPU usage for TO alone], security software incompatibility, notable: OUTDATED/OLD GameGuard compatibility with Avast, Kaspersky security software suite.

    But Nprotect [the ppl behind GameGuard] fixes those issues, mostly, with their LATEST version of GameGuard module.

     

    Next, upgrading to Win Vista 64-bit just to makesure it's TO compatible? Uh, sorry, I won't just lease out any extra budget just to makesure my system is Win Vista 64-bit compatible

    So, who's in fault here, is IT Vista, or OUTDATED GameGuard? Of course it's the OUTDATED GameGuard issue.

     

     Solution? Fix the game, UPGRADE the Trickster Online GameGuard module. Lol.

     Lol, tl:dr? Also, UAC is annoying, get ThreatFire as replacement ;o

    Trickster Online is a great game, but the those stuff, especially OUTDATED GameGuard module killed the fun :x

     

    My 2cents.

  •  10-25-2008, 1:01 PM 238162 in reply to 237730

    Re: Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    True story,,,

     

    I run my home computers without any sort of protection apart from the firewall built into my router. Every so often I check my computer for spyware and virii with industry standard tools. I'm going on 4 years 100% problem-free.

     

    Now...

     

    If you had read Chaos' post he is not actually telling anyone to do this. He's just giving everyone a status report on their findings. 

     

    Also, Noe, Stop advertising your blog. It's disgusting.

     

    However, StarLight makes a point. Our version of GameGuard seems really old. Do you have any plans to update it?

     

    Love,

    Rekrab




    Bringing the Love With Every Post Since February 21st 2008.
  •  10-26-2008, 8:51 AM 238447 in reply to 238162

    Re: Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    Yeah it really could be the GameGuard because I play Trickster on a 64 bit version of Vista and no problems with it except that the game has delay and just runs slow. I played Grand Chase it seemed to run just fine with no slowing down or delay. Might want to look into the GameGuard situation.

    And seriously I know you guys were having nothing running for testing purposes but I have to agree no one is going to take down their protections. >.<


  •  10-26-2008, 9:47 PM 238692 in reply to 238447

    Re: Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    I think a more convincing test case would be to test it with common antivirus and anti spyware programs installed and running.  I'm quite sure a company could negotiate a test license with Symantec or McAfee - I've done it for 2 companies now.  They'll be happy to give out licenses if one can certify a product to run with their product installed.  Updating to the latest version of GameGuard would also help things out quite a bit.

    I'm serious about voiding support warranties - my Sony Vaio VGN-AR630E notebook came with Vista Home Premium installed.  I have a requirement to join an Active Directory domain so I upgraded to Vista Ultimate ... and Sony will no longer support my laptop (had an issue with the Bluray drive - Sony basically told me I'm on my own because I have Ultimate).  This is simply a different package of the same architecture - not changing from a 32 bit to 64 bit architecture. 



    New MMO - Trapster Online
  •  12-03-2008, 8:50 AM 251056 in reply to 238692

    Re: Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    For Vista 32-bit, the best way to get sound to work is to have sound already playing through the card before and while starting up the game.  As soon as the game starts, you should be able to hear its music.  As far as compatibility with SP1 it's impossible.  Micro$oft code has screwed us over once again.  Does anyone know anything about compatibility with SP2?
  •  12-03-2008, 9:36 AM 251067 in reply to 251056

    Re: Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    I've gotten it to work by restarting the Windows Audio service.  I didn't have anything else playing, I just opened Trickster, restarted the audio service, and sound came back.  This was on Vista 32 bit and V32 SP1.


    New MMO - Trapster Online
  •  12-05-2008, 4:26 PM 252294 in reply to 251067

    Re: Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    Yes i had wmp playing in the background and started the game and the sound (though a little garbled) came through...when before there was 0 sound..
  •  12-12-2008, 3:37 PM 253971 in reply to 251056

    Re: Windows Vista Compatibility Thread

    Before I got SP1 for vista, trickster worked reasonably well (I'm 32bit).  I got the sound issue but the game froze my computer every now and then.  I stopped playing TO for a while because of exams, and I got SP1.

     

    Now whenever I try to start the game, gameguard pops up, then everything disappears and explorer freezes.  I have to restart because of this.   Is this because of the SP1?  And is there anything I can do to get my game working?

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