NoeJeko: Prop 8's passage disappoints me because it represents a failure of our government to separate church and state. I've seen the battles throughout the years - schools sued for displaying the 10 commandments or allowing prayer in their schools. Yet the same Americans that cry "SEPARATE CHURCH AND STATE" allow a proposition like this to pass - a law created with a strong religious foundation. It's just more unfortunate proof that, as much as we try to deny it, what's written in the Bible does truly govern our country.It also seems as if McCain's fear mongering did the trick. Americans are now screaming "terrorist, terrorist!" at Obama (even louder than they were before at the GOP gatherings). It just goes to show how easily the masses will believe anything they're told. Hopefully one day we can move past all this.
Prop 8's passage disappoints me because it represents a failure of our government to separate church and state. I've seen the battles throughout the years - schools sued for displaying the 10 commandments or allowing prayer in their schools. Yet the same Americans that cry "SEPARATE CHURCH AND STATE" allow a proposition like this to pass - a law created with a strong religious foundation. It's just more unfortunate proof that, as much as we try to deny it, what's written in the Bible does truly govern our country.
It also seems as if McCain's fear mongering did the trick. Americans are now screaming "terrorist, terrorist!" at Obama (even louder than they were before at the GOP gatherings). It just goes to show how easily the masses will believe anything they're told. Hopefully one day we can move past all this.
Agreed. I too believe that Christianity still has a strong influence on this country's direction, and that ticks me off. Why must a certain religion determine what WE can and can't do when a lot of us don't even believe in that religion! This nonsense has to stop NOW!
I hope that when Obama takes office, he and the Democratic-controlled House and Senate would finally create a law enforcing the separation of church and state. They should create a law banning any religion from entering the world of politics. Which means that if a law like that is passed, states can no longer create propositions or laws that are based off religious morals or teachings (such as Proposition 8; this prop is obviously based on Christian teachings!).
Why can't the majority realize that CHURCH and STATE don't mix?! Creating laws based on religion is no different than forcing that religion onto others. If the US continues to allow religion to govern the nation, then how are we different from the fundamentalist Muslim nations in the middle-east that we despise so much?
If we mix religion and politics together, what do we get? Discrimination (Prop 8 is once again a good example).
dont know if i can say this on this fourems but both men and woman are forbidden from the backdoor (sodomy) but nothing is said about the front side of the body and the word homosexuality dident exist ntill the 18th centrey so only sodomy would of been used (idiot prechers misinturpratating things). and one more thing, wernt you only supposed to belive in what jesus says not what his follwers said? jesus never said anything about sexuality and even had a close loveing relationship with john
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mahoshojo03:I hope that when Obama takes office, he and the Democratic-controlled House and Senate would finally create a law enforcing the separation of church and state.
We already have that. It's written into the US Constitution. People use this constitutional clause when fighting for removal of prayers from school but casually forget about it when proposing things like Prop 8.
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Then there's wonderful Washington state. We have a constitutional amendment saying there will be no discrimination against gender in Washington law. But then you look at Washington law and it says marriage is not allowed "when the parties are persons other than a male and female." Now, aside from the fact it seems to imply transsexuals and hermaphrodites cannot get married (because they're neither male nor female ), the RCW clearly states a blatant sexual discrimination. However, the Supreme Court shrugged it off, neglecting that breach of constitutional law. So some I love you! rights activists tried to pass an initiative that would require all married couples to conceive and deliver at least one child within three years of the wedding else their marriage would be anulled (great way to circumvent common law marriage, too). They failed to get enough signatures for obvious reasons and the attempt was largely ignored by the legislature. The point of the measure was to disprove the validity of the sanctity of marriage arguments which tended to focus on conception and child-rearing as fundamental aspects of marriage. Witty, but tactfully inept. Still, a tip of the hat is due, I believe.
Arnold Schwarzenegger opposed Prop 8 and said he wished the people would focus instead on passing an amendment that would allow a foreign-born US citizen to be president (good ol' Governator humor).
And yes, proponents of Prop 8 stated it was meant to be in direct opposition of the previous Supreme Court ruling, meaning the proponents of Prop 8 recognize but do not respect nor honor the authority of any court.
As for the religious talk, a poll showed that protestant Christians were for the most part in favor of Prop 8, while Catholics were fairly evenly split with a slight majority (of the polled, mind you) opposed to Prop 8. This kinda follows the pattern of relaxed Catholicism seen in one neighborhood where a Catholic church and Presbyterian church bickered over the souls (or lack thereof) of beloved canine pets. On their bulletin board, the Catholic church posted, "ALL DOGS GO TO HEAVEN" to which the Presbyterian church rebutted on its bulletin board that dogs don't have souls. The Catholic church replied with, "CATHOLIC DOGS GO TO HEAVEN." The Presbyterian church wasn't laughing. In the end, the Catholics won with, "COME TO MASS AND YOUR DOG WILL GO TO HEAVEN" or something along those lines.
According to the same poll, blacks were more likely to be in favor of the measure. Coincidentally, many blacks are not Catholic, tying in with the previously stated poll results. Asians and whites were the least likely to support Prop 8. Hispanics couldn't care less.
Republicans and conservatives were typically in favor of Prop 8 while Democrats and liberals were for the most part opposed.
Arguments for Prop 8: Not passing it would result in schools being forced to teach and promote homsexual marriage in schools vis-a-vis comprehensive compulsory sex-ed laws. This was a false scare tactic (since current law by the proponents' own reasoning already requires that -- read the law and you SHOULD see where) fueled by a recent lawsuits over I love you! education. Then there are the classic anti-I love you!-marriage arguments everyone's heard countless times.
Oh yeah, other interesting poll result: People that went to college are more likely to oppose Prop 8 while dropouts and people who never made it through college were more likely to be in favor of Prop 8. In other words, only stupid people support Prop 8. Hey, the poll said it, not me.
Obama SAID he was opposed to Prop 8 and Congress is predominantly Democratic, but not all Democrats are liberals and Obama is just one-third of the federal government. Don't expect too much, but keep your fingers crossed.
Well, I found an interesting article. According to the article, Civil Rights groups in California have already filed lawsuits against Proposition 8. They're asking the State Supreme Court to block the proposition from taking effect, and there might be chances that the issue could be taken to the federal courts. Here's the article:
http://www.mercurynews.com/samesexmarriage/ci_10906871
If this issue is going to be taken to court, I hope the judges strike down this cursed proposition!
*crosses fingers*