Ntreev us strategy.Epic fail ?
1 - Hacks out of controls
2 - PangyaUs becoming PangyaBr2 with portuguese flood out of control too
3 - Papel shop rate being a big bad joke
4 - Personnal shops closed ( due to hacks being out of control )
There was already some serious issues making the "bankable" player base unhappy. Why adding two more by yourself ?
1 - You said you want to "catch up" Korea.3 scratch items a release ? Korea have up to 18 items a release.
2 - You want to give us a gift that no one asked for ( free card / 1000 pts ) and prevent us to actually buy cards.It would be ok if rare was just for "the look".But guys items like elfen ears are a crazy advantage GAMEPLAY WISE.
I should'nt have to buy 200$ of your stupid runner package to get them. Your ruining the game experience just by yourself.You already had enough problems to solve.Trust me.
No I don't.
Welcome to PANGYA US BR. SPAM , HACK and 1:1 for the Heavens.
Awww ? huahuahuahua.
Just because they come as a free bonus doesn't mean they're free. They're only free IF you want to buy something else. I'm outraged even more by the fact that the GMs are trying to cover this up as they are when they're really just doing it because eCards are in high demand and it will supposedly cause people to buy more(which I highly doubt). But many people will stop spending entirely and the customers that do still have the intent of getting eCards will not be as happy which will stop potential new customers from even buying in the first place.
To call this free is similar to saying "if you buy our car, we'll give you this television FREE!" But the only way to get the television is by buying the car. Suddenly you see someone paying $20,000 for a $1,000 TV when they don't even WANT the car because they already have one that they like(and in the case of Pangya, you can't auction off the thing you don't want, it really IS useless if you personally don't have much of a use for it). But it just doesn't work out, because not many people are going to take up the deal in the first place as compared to people who would buy the TV separately. I'm definitely willing to bet 20 people would rather buy a $1,000 TV for $1,000 than 1 person buying a $20,000 car+TV when they don't even want the car. And similarly, I am willing to bet 3 people would rather buy 4 25 cent scratch cards than 1 person would be willing to buy 3 $1 scratch cards when they don't want anything BUT the cards(which would obviously be the case should someone consider buying eCards alone in the first place).
Yes, it's a fun little bonus if you're already going to be buying something. But when it is the only way to acquire something, you're going to turn away a large quantity of customers, I would even go so far as to say that the vast majority of primarily or purely eCard buyers will not want to buy them anymore and will have no reason to buy other things when they already have what they need with the exception of the cards.
I think the GMs don't want to hear negative feedback but do so so it seems like they're doing it for us, because we've been giving negative feedback constantly and all that's happening is we're being fed the same thing over and over again when it's obviously evading the point. The point is not that we CAN get free eCards should we buy things, the point is that we HAVE to buy things if we want to get eCards. We can't just buy the cards themselves. I'd rather pay $1/piece for cards and have them be of a higher chance at getting a rare than have them be 1 free one every $1 and have it be the odds they are now.
I'm not anti-GM, I don't hate you guys or anything, but in my opinion, the way you're handling this is not very good for either the business or the community and I think that in this case, going with the people would be the better option for the future of the game. I'm not saying this will destroy the game or anything, but it will definitely have an effect as you have surely seen by now with several multiple-thousand dollar spenders quitting due to the new eCard system. All it takes is several thousand dollar spenders to disappear and profits already take cuts of at least $10,000+ that could've potentially been made from them(and they would likely be happier, at that). And that's just focusing on them, it will also leave quite a dent on the majority, the smaller spenders who just buy cards and stuff occasionally to try their luck.
I, and I believe many others here, encourage you to talk with the other GMs, or whoever is in control of what's going on here, and try to get this new, ridiculous system changed. I'm not going to threaten you and say I'll quit, or that I'll stop spending money, because I DO love Pangya and I do want to keep playing. It's a somewhat small community for an online game, basically everyone knows each other, most people like each other(or at least as much as we can expect people to like each other), and it really feels like a community here. By people quitting and things changing this drastically, it may very well tear this community apart piece by piece. That's something charts and graphs could never show us accurately, and it's a terribly risky decision.
I hope you understand and take into serious consideration what I and the others are saying here.
xtoshx2: A work of art.
A work of art.
Well said. I agree with every word you wrote.
IGN: HappyGilmore
You will not make this putt... you jack***!
Kryptas: xtoshx2: A work of art. Well said. I agree with every word you wrote.
I agree with him too. This method will not give us for FREE ANYTHING, we actually need to spend a lot of $ for getting scratch ecards. Don't need to add anything else, it's already all written in previus pages of this thread.
RegardsCuoReNeRo
~ Italian Legends ~ Guild Leader.
This alone deserves to be stickied, if anything. You just nailed every single points I have in my mind.
I hope the GMs would seriously consider this post in their response regarding this issue
Xellac: xtoshx2: A work of art. This alone deserves to be stickied, if anything. You just nailed every single points I have in my mind. I hope the GMs would seriously consider this post in their response regarding this issue
Yup ... said everything I could have ever wanted to on this issue and more.
Is a manual patch of 435 available? Auto-patching fails me again
GMTakeda:Well Lets start this off by saying no the Scratchy cards are not 1 dollar the only way you could even make this statement would be if we raised prices in the shop.(which we didn't) Greed, How its a BONUS we are not asking you to buy them we are giving them to you upon you buying any other premium item and for every 1000 points spent on these items you get FREE scratchy cards. If you do not like free thats fine with me but I happen to like the idea of FREE scratchy cards. So from the looks of it the cards are actually 25cents cheaper then in previous versions. Why you ask? BECAUSE ITS A BONUS MAKING THEM FREE.
You didn't "make them free". You removed the "normal price" option to straight buy them. Now in order to buy scratchy cards, they need to pay 1,000 points for them. So yes, for people who are buying scratchy cards for the sake of buying them, the cards cost 1,000 points and whatever junk they spent those points on becomes the "bonus".
GMTakeda: dekutree64:No new measures to combat hacking... http://forum.ntreev.net/pangya/forums/t/2353.aspx Measures are being taken I assure you. Btw this is not updated so there are plenty more names to add.
dekutree64:No new measures to combat hacking...
http://forum.ntreev.net/pangya/forums/t/2353.aspx Measures are being taken I assure you. Btw this is not updated so there are plenty more names to add.
That's not a new measure. That's repetition of an existing measure which ultimately isn't achieving a lot, as players often mention.
GMTakeda:if you don't want those items wait till there is an item you do want and buy it get the FREE scratchy cards then make an attempt at a rare.
Now what's your fix-all suggestion if the rare they want appears and disappears before any points items they want? There are only so many points items people want (and on this kind of scale, there are only so many points items in the game) and the kind of pang mastery + time booster purchase required here will easily outstrip consumption for most players so that doesn't work either.
Many people have made similar responses to the quotes above so this post isn't saying a lot. Let's try a fresh approach.
Why do Ntreev insist that rare items are "just a bonus" all the time?
Perhaps not Ntreev as a whole, but so far the GMs seem to show a fundamental failure to understand that their perception of these type of item does not match what the players think of them. Heck, they don't even match how these items function or are marketed.
"Just a bonus" items would be something like red noses, lovely kisses or national flag facepaints. The kind of item or outfit piece that does not provide any statistical bonus (or a menial one), does not provide any in-game bonus (e.g. 2/3 Pang per shot) and does not interfere with other outfit pieces. Wearing them would be a nice way to say "Look, I have this!".
Elfin Ears could not be further from this. They're treated as a "must-have" by players who can afford them, and they were obviously created with that in mind given their undeniably huge effect. The only people who are denying this rather obvious point are yourselves, and so the sheer audacity of this "they're just a bonus!" pricing strategy is very difficult for any of us as players to believe.
Miraglyth: GMTakeda:Well Lets start this off by saying no the Scratchy cards are not 1 dollar the only way you could even make this statement would be if we raised prices in the shop.(which we didn't) Greed, How its a BONUS we are not asking you to buy them we are giving them to you upon you buying any other premium item and for every 1000 points spent on these items you get FREE scratchy cards. If you do not like free thats fine with me but I happen to like the idea of FREE scratchy cards. So from the looks of it the cards are actually 25cents cheaper then in previous versions. Why you ask? BECAUSE ITS A BONUS MAKING THEM FREE. You didn't "make them free". You removed the "normal price" option to straight buy them. Now in order to buy scratchy cards, they need to pay 1,000 points for them. So yes, for people who are buying scratchy cards for the sake of buying them, the cards cost 1,000 points and whatever junk they spent those points on becomes the "bonus".
sig made by me :3
I think a big issue at hand here isn't necessarily the method of distribution, but rather that the community still has an idea of a precedent based on their past experience with the former publisher.
We are a different publisher, and related directly to the developer of the game. As such, as a matter of operational simplicity it is likely that a number of mechanics and features will more closely model what the developers do. This method of distribution for scratchy cards (the cost, the rates, the whole enchilada) is used by the Korean version of the game, which is now published directly by Ntreev Soft. Although this is only tangentially related, our Papel Shop is the same too, minus the Season 4 change of unlimited turns.
So when you're bringing up how it was with the former publisher of this version, our response is that we know how it worked before, we're doing it differently. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.
I understand that there is some very strong feedback on this issue, that players would prefer to have the "old" system of directly purchasing cards.
If the Scratchy Cards were sold directly in the shop but for $1, would you rather receive cards for purchasing other premium items, or would you rather buy the cards directly? This is assuming a "have your cake and eat it too" scenario in which both methods of distribution would be active, so the cards would *effectively* cost $0.50 if you bought them directly. So assuming this, that you'd get double the cards with direct purchase but then you wouldn't be getting whatever other items from the shop, would you still want us to release them directly to the shop, or is the current method of distribution fine on its own?
It's tough for me to propose the above scenario because it suggests that the Scratchy Cards become more expensive, when a major benefit of this method of distribution is to reduce the expense of the cards (at the cost of rarity).
Bottom line, you know already this isn't my decision, but if you want to see anything changed I'm going to need to be able to present strong feedback to our developers. I've seen some very well articulated responses so far, and I'm not trying to shut them down here, I believe my devil's advocacy strengthens the feedback we ultimately receive and pass on.
From Ryugen
GMLoki:So when you're bringing up how it was with the former publisher of this version, our response is that we know how it worked before, we're doing it differently. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.
GMLoki:If the Scratchy Cards were sold directly in the shop but for $1, would you rather receive cards for purchasing other premium items, or would you rather buy the cards directly? This is assuming a "have your cake and eat it too" scenario in which both methods of distribution would be active, so the cards would *effectively* cost $0.50 if you bought them directly. So assuming this, that you'd get double the cards with direct purchase
Have our cake and eat it too?! Where have you been? It's long been mentioned on the forums and is common knowledge that the points equivalent of the Albatross18 "e-card" cost would be 250 points. Even 500 points would not be "double the cards" - it'd be half!!
GMLoki:but then you wouldn't be getting whatever other items from the shop, would you still want us to release them directly to the shop, or is the current method of distribution fine on its own?
Adding them for direct purchase would be an improvement. Doubling the price without doubling the win rate would still be hated by pretty much everyone considering how expensive they were in the first place but it'd at least be better than this insanity.
GMLoki:a major benefit of this method of distribution is to reduce the expense of the cards (at the cost of rarity).
Yet another "these items are only bonuses!" claim. I really don't want to seem confrontational but when are you going to understand that they really aren't?
GMLoki: I understand that there is some very strong feedback on this issue, that players would prefer to have the "old" system of directly purchasing cards. If the Scratchy Cards were sold directly in the shop but for $1, would you rather receive cards for purchasing other premium items, or would you rather buy the cards directly? This is assuming a "have your cake and eat it too" scenario in which both methods of distribution would be active, so the cards would *effectively* cost $0.50 if you bought them directly. So assuming this, that you'd get double the cards with direct purchase but then you wouldn't be getting whatever other items from the shop, would you still want us to release them directly to the shop, or is the current method of distribution fine on its own? It's tough for me to propose the above scenario because it suggests that the Scratchy Cards become more expensive, when a major benefit of this method of distribution is to reduce the expense of the cards (at the cost of rarity).
While $1 for two cards is still seemingly more expensive, I would still prefer to have the option open. Part of what bugs me is that if I want to get scratchy cards, I have to make purchases when there may really be nothing I want other than the scratchy cards. This just feels wasteful. Even at a highered price, at least I would know what it was I was trading money for and I would be happy with my purchase because I wouldn't feel as though my hand forced. That said, bundles would be nice to see as well. Like 25 cards for $20(45 total cards with the bonus).
Shafted..... Again
It's as if they are saying... "Hrm.... lots of people are complaining about the prices of points items (e.g., auto-calipers) so lets make it look like we are sweetening the deal by giving them free scratchies. So they will buy more extortionately priced items in the vein hope of winning a rare"
If that is not a prime example of sneaky shaftage then I dont know what is.
I stuck up a lot for you, Ntreev, in the game when people were cussing at you but I am losing more and more faith with every patch. It IS greed no matter how you try to sugar-coat it / hide it / deceive the playerbase. Just trying to squeeze more and more out of those who you know love this game and really really really want certain rares.
And I bet I wont get any cards for the 100k points I have already spent so far either huh? Shafted again if that's the case. If it is then no more money from me.
*Sits back and watches this failboat go down*
If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
Ohh and ,,i,, u Blapel
Since you have to pay money to receive Scratchy cards, they are in fact not free. You are simply bundling them with other items, and keeping the same cost. You can call Scratchy cards a bonus, but they are definately not free. It is pretty obvious that no one wants to have these rares reduced to being a bonus. Some of these rares are more valuable to us then anything else that you can buy in the game.
You claim that these rares are just a bonus. However, this is nothing more than a marketing strategy to increase sales. If people still try their best to get these rares, you have multiplied your income by 4 (comparing your income to OGP's). At this point, it looks to me as if that strategy is having the opposite effect.
I haven't had any problems with Ntreev USA so far until this point. I'm not trying to flame anyone but your posts on this subject seem to be either unhelpful, or self-righteous.
A quick revision of something I said in my previous post:
A distribution method where one Scratchy Card costs 500 points (the example mentioned being the existing bonus remaining but cards also being individually sellable for 1000 points, so buying a card directly gets you two) would be overall fair when compared with Albatross18 so long as the rare sets continue to be so few in content. Right now for example, someone who wants Kooh ears only has to put up with two "interference rares" as opposed to the 5/6 previously, so they'll only need to win 3 maximum, potentially spending half as much to balance out the doubled cost.
Of course this doesn't work entirely when you consider club sets, even more so if those will get bundled with two other rares also.