From what I'm hearing during game, and the forums...there are 2 groups of people with this issue...
The first group are the one who buys e-cards normally for either thereselves or other people. Currently they do not like this idea
The second group are the ones who buy point items but tend to ignore scratchy cards. Currently they like/do not care about this idea...
Now I'm in the second group...while this idea isn't killing me like others, it would be nice to have some kind of choice. Currently I'm set with point items till lucia comes out...and if that Arin denim swimsuit comes out again, I would love to keep buying cards for this...but it would sadden me that I would need to buy other stuff (I could stock up on Comets or power potions but...eh)
Tempoary Sig.
GMLoki:I said I would leave my own opinion out of it, I'm only going to try to strengthen the feedback we give by weeding out weaker points.
GMLoki:Bottom line, you know already this isn't my decision, but if you want to see anything changed I'm going to need to be able to present strong feedback to our developers. I've seen some very well articulated responses so far, and I'm not trying to shut them down here, I believe my devil's advocacy strengthens the feedback we ultimately receive and pass on.
GMLoki:I'm not going to share my personal opinion about this, I want to hear yours, so that I can collect all the feedback and pass it up the chain.
GMLoki:Don't read too much into that statement, just work off a hypothetical scenario in which Scratchy Card items are tradeable.
GMLoki:Cultural differences is going to be your strongest argument for tweaks, since that's something I love to use in defense of various mechanical changes in Grand Chase.
I wouldn't give up hope on getting scratchy cards in the shop. Clearly, Loki has hands tied in that he works for Ntreev and can't openly say "I dislike the way they're handling scratchy cards" as he works for them. In an event in Grand Chase, players had the opportunity to spend an hour talking to GMs. I remember talking to the guy who got to talk to Loki. He said something along the lines of, "the man reminds me of a sage" about Loki's character. To me, what Loki's doing reminds me of Socrates' method of teaching. He's not able to give input on what he thinks is wrong with it, but he's able to lead us with questions. He knows his role as a GM, and he knows he can't change anything himself. Obviously, when presenting this information to the devs, there needs to be large support in the community for the change since we are the customers. I think we can rest assured that if we present enough valid arguments, we'll be able to get this changed. We have someone who will voice our opinions and advocate the change.
Again, I might be reading into small things too much, and I don't mean to put words into Loki's mouth...but that's my interpretation of the situation. So, I ask of those who are against this, rather than saying "I want to buy scratchy cards, I don't like Ntreev for this, I'm gonna quit, I give up, etc." to present logical arguments that can be used in changing this obvious mistake by Ntreev.
IGN: HappyGilmore
You will not make this putt... you jack***!
GMLoki: I'm not going to share my personal opinion about this, I want to hear yours, so that I can collect all the feedback and pass it up the chain. Of course he won't, put it this way, he CAN'T, if he does say something like "blehhh, this one isn't good, players wont like it, blah blah blah", I bet u that the next day he'll be thrown out on the street, if you know what i mean The only thing he can do is collecting feedback and pass it on. Tbh, this is the dumbest idea I've ever seen, whoever came up with it; is a completely moron. There's my feedback, I doubt that you'll pass it up
As for the complaints regarding the distribution of the way scratchy rare sets are done. I actually like it this way. The single items like clubsets get bundled together with the ring or other single items, and thats actually going to cut down on time especially. I mean as the GMs said, you could bundle 3 months of scratchy card rares in one set and thats cuts catchup time signifigantly. I also like, as was said by the GMs already about the amount of interference rares in a set. Its actually easier to get what you really want our of a set, if theres less 'junk' in your way to get it. I mean when SSAF sets were out in OGP, I was REALLY fortunate to get 2 of the 3 I wanted. Rather than the ones I didn't. And if it ends up that you CAN'T trade them in shops, then having less interference rares is THAT MUCH more important. This system I actually DO like, even if I dont agree with the distribution of the scratchy cards themselves.
GMLoki, good form in handling this the way you guys have so far; you don't have to put out the effort, and certain ungrateful children have only articulated that fact. It's good to see GMs take a hands on approach, and actively get involved, even if it can cause you guys a few more headaches along the way.
Some of you players could really stand to bear two important things in mind:
The GMs are messengers and enforcers. Nothing more, and nothing less. They don't call the shots, and especially with the effort they're putting out to humor you all, they deserve your thanks, not your scorn. Call it a hunch when I say they don't have alot to work with, especially in this game, where whiny players are probably among the least of their worries. You may not like the job they have to do at times, but keep in mind that the job more than likely wasn't their idea, and that some of the less popular jobs might be (gasp) for the greater good.
Temper tantrums and insults are a bad way to prove your point. If you want to be taken seriously, act like adults, even if you're not. Screaming and crying will, if you're lucky, result in the reader rolling their eyes and ignoring you completely. Being calm and reasonable, on the other hand, can do nothing but strengthen your case.
There's been data collected and on average, it takes 80-150 at the current rates set to get a rare. That's 80,000 to 150,000 points. On the high side, that's 25,000 time boosters or 5,000 special comets or 15,000 auto-calipers. There's plenty of us who do not care at all for these items...ESPECIALLY at those insane quantities. I haven't even played near a total of 5,000 holes in my career in Pangya. I'd have such an excessive amount of consumables if I wanted but one rare that I would pry never use all of them...and that's for one rare! What happens if I don't get the one I want or another set is released with another rare I want?! Do I amass another plethora of consumable items?
The answer is no. At certain point, even consumable items will lose their value if I have more than I will need. So what do I buy to keep getting scratchy cards? Well, if I was put in that situation, I know exactly what I would do. I would sell points. I make pang and get my scratchy cards. The pang is of more use to me than more pang masteries or more auto-calipers...And I'm sure I'd get more pang per point selling points than buying masteries. I know selling points is against the rules, but when you've run out of options, sometimes bending the rules is the best case scenario. That's the sign of a bad bussiness model. Yet another flaw of the current system.
LadyMiaow: GMLoki, good form in handling this the way you guys have so far; you don't have to put out the effort, and certain ungrateful children have only articulated that fact. It's good to see GMs take a hands on approach, and actively get involved, even if it can cause you guys a few more headaches along the way....
GMLoki, good form in handling this the way you guys have so far; you don't have to put out the effort, and certain ungrateful children have only articulated that fact. It's good to see GMs take a hands on approach, and actively get involved, even if it can cause you guys a few more headaches along the way....
Yeah, the GMs are contradicting themselves and telling us not to buy points because their perception of a rare is different than ours. So they don't want us to buy their products as it apparently isn't important, and they want us to compare them to Korea when they're not even following that system correctly but not compare them to the pervious publisher where the majority of their current player base came from. Hmmm... logic.You are right though, the GMs are messengers and we're giving them our feedback. With enough feedback it seems, at least from what they say, they can take this issue back to the developers and give them our two cents. There's obviously a huge degree of players who aren't happy with this, so why is it such a problem for us to give our critics, suggestions, and our dis/satisfaction with it? Isn't that the point of feedback itself?You also have to realize Pangya players who were with the pervious publisher went through hell and back already. We’re trying to avoid the same thing, but when problems keep popping up and we experience again after years of let-downs it kind of wears on a player. You’re free to take it as it’s just a game, but many people love Pangya. Anime golf is serious business after all. In all truth though why is it not beneficial for all of us to share our disagreements. We’re seeing a pattern. We had hope of a new publisher, and they’re not meeting our expectations. Thus we’re disappointed and start to distrust them. It’s all pretty simplistic reactions to things such as hackers, no GameGuard update, Papel rates, item price jacks, etcetera. I personally gave the GMs a lot of props earlier due to their quick response time; however, with many of the things stated in this thread or others their points begin to become opposite of each other and create a suspicious as to what they’re trying to accomplish. For example the push that the item is free, which in fact it technically is not. Many people in the thread have given a lot of reasons for this like, “The item is free but the delivery cost money.” Though the biggest misconception between the player base that cares about eCard/Scratch Card rares and the GMs is that we do not see the rares as bonuses. We see them as an attainable goal that can be achieved with enough money, the right amount of patience, and the quickness to get it within a set time limit like one of the events they recently held. The only reason this means more than one of those events is it deals with large amounts of money and lower rates. While to the GMs, as they have stated previously, it is merely a bonus but many regular eCard users such as myself look at it as a collectible, a must-have, an item that grants stats not found elsewhere, etcetera. This is really the only bridge now to gap as I’m sure the GMs understand we are displeased.
Perhaps the GMs on't see this as a big deal because they get all of the items they want, and for free, perhaps they haven't experienced the inexplainable frustration of spending hundreds of dollars on an item you're not sure you're going to get.
Yes, they're not items we *have* to have, but the concept is the same as collecting trading cards, rare things are fun to own.
With your logic we may as well not even buy anything from the shop, or even spend pang, because they're not things we *need* to play the game.
Pangya news, if it could be called that
Selinya:Anime golf is serious business after all.
I lawled XD
Selinya:For example the push that the item is free, which in fact it technically is not.
No no, technically it IS a free bonus. Now if you're just searching for the Scratchy Card and not the item attached to it, then yes, you may interpret as "Not Free", but when it comes down to it..Tuesday, I bought a pack of pang masteries, now today, I bought a pack of pang masteries AND I get 2 free scratchy cards for the same price..I'd say thats Free ^^
Selinya: Though the biggest misconception between the player base that cares about eCard/Scratch Card rares and the GMs is that we do not see the rares as bonuses. We see them as an attainable goal that can be achieved with enough money, the right amount of patience, and the quickness to get it within a set time limit like one of the events they recently held.
Though the biggest misconception between the player base that cares about eCard/Scratch Card rares and the GMs is that we do not see the rares as bonuses. We see them as an attainable goal that can be achieved with enough money, the right amount of patience, and the quickness to get it within a set time limit like one of the events they recently held.
This is where ALL of the "At Odds" behavior (Not saying people are behaving bad, just using it as a general statement) seems to be coming from. At this point, you're getting 3 options.
- You're gonna have to spend a huge chunk of cash to get all of the rares (As we've seen some folks have spent 100+ and still missed)
- You're gonna have to accept that it's a thing of the past, and that it'll be impossible to get all of the rares
- You're gonna have to get the GMs to convince the developers to change the system back to what it was.
I would suggest instead of bashing Ntreev (Many of our forum users favorite past times) you guys and gals should get together and create a structured report on just why the system should be changed and submit it to the Suggestion Area so Loki can take it and talk to the developers with it. And I mean, talk on a chat or through convos..Get some good data and make it presentable. I would include statistics on both how the current system is beneficial, not beneficial, and what improvements would be generated from changing it (I would avoid odds, chance, and such though..Just look at the core system.)
(For those who don't think Ntreev will listen..Oh well. I'm saying users that do can invest the time in it if they wish. ^^)
"Don't you ever, ever, ever trust my mercy..."
If you only take away one thing, I would hope everyone can understand that I would never want someone to withold criticism, I just need to ask for the criticism to be constructive. This thread is valuable and I don't want to lock it, but it can't get out of control.
It's great that such a majority of our players are so passionate about this update, it really proves they care. If they didn't care and really did plan to quit, we wouldn't be hearing about it with this sort of volume on our forums. So that's good, it's a lot better to hear criticism than silence.
In the midst of this passion though, please keep in mind that it's the constructive points that are going to be passed along. Try to avoid antagonistic language wherever possible, let your argument speak for itself and focus on the mechanics. "Just the facts, ma'am"
If you say something along the lines of "This is the worst idea ever conceived, whichever idiot thought of it should be fired...out of a cannon into the sun", you know, that feedback probably isn't going to achieve the same effect as it would if it were just worded a little different: "I don't agree with this idea, I think it's inappropriate for our community and instead we should do ______" There's a lot of *that* feedback going around this thread, and that's what we want to collect and pass on.
From Tomcik
Failstar:No no, technically it IS a free bonus.
No, technically, nothing is ever free. TINSTAAFL.
Failstar:I would suggest instead of bashing Ntreev (Many of our forum users favorite past times) you guys and gals should get together and create a structured report on just why the system should be changed and submit it to the Suggestion Area so Loki can take it and talk to the developers with it. And I mean, talk on a chat or through convos..Get some good data and make it presentable. I would include statistics on both how the current system is beneficial, not beneficial, and what improvements would be generated from changing it
Sounds like a great idea, but it's a lot of work to get something that a lot of us just assume to be common sense. We shouldn't have to beg for the ability to purchase something. Never in my life I have seen something backwards where the players have to beg and please the company so that they will allow them to give them their money in exchange for a product. It baffles me.
Kryptas: Sounds like a great idea, but it's a lot of work to get something that a lot of us just assume to be common sense. We shouldn't have to beg for the ability to purchase something. Never in my life I have seen something backwards where the players have to beg and please the company so that they will allow them to give them their money in exchange for a product. It baffles me.
To me personally, common sense dictated that the system would be wildly similar to PangyaKR (Yes, we're not PangyaKR, but since NtreevSoft Develops the game, and they publish PangyaKR, it's logical to assume we'd get a system darn similar to them with Ntreev being it's sister company)...I wouldn't expect Ntreev to Mirror A18's system at all since it was pretty unique to that publisher (I don't believe any other version has the buying these cards Or am I wrong..? I'm not sure).
It's sort of like projecting A18 onto Pangya. Different publisher is gonna have a different system.
Failstar: Kryptas: Sounds like a great idea, but it's a lot of work to get something that a lot of us just assume to be common sense. We shouldn't have to beg for the ability to purchase something. Never in my life I have seen something backwards where the players have to beg and please the company so that they will allow them to give them their money in exchange for a product. It baffles me. To me personally, common sense dictated that the system would be wildly similar to PangyaKR (Yes, we're not PangyaKR, but since NtreevSoft Develops the game, and they publish PangyaKR, it's logical to assume we'd get a system darn similar to them with Ntreev being it's sister company)...I wouldn't expect Ntreev to Mirror A18's system at all since it was pretty unique to that publisher (I don't believe any other version has the buying these cards Or am I wrong..? I'm not sure).
Common sense in that you're a company with a product that people want to buy. Why not sell it to them and benefit yourselves as well as your consumers. A18 set a precedent and showed that it's not legally impossible because of gambling restrictions or whatever...Which may be the case in Korea. I have no clue about any of their laws.
Kryptas: Common sense in that you're a company with a product that people want to buy. Why not sell it to them and benefit yourselves as well as your consumers. A18 set a precedent and showed that it's not legally impossible because of gambling restrictions or whatever...Which may be the case in Korea. I have no clue about any of their laws.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
But what I'm saying is that right now, thats not how it worked out. If people want it changed, you gotta present it in a way that will convince the developers to change it. We're going around in a circle here..
The way you're presenting it is logical, but it's not how it happened..So now you've gotta try to make it happen. (Or accept it the way it is).
I wouldn't say theres anything "wrong" with the system right now. It's perfectly acceptable to distribute scratchycards in this manner in my mind (EDIT: If I were a developer...Forgot to add that part) because the developers do not view these rares as some sort of essential items everyone needs. Players need to work to convince them otherwise or it'll stay the way it is.
(And now I'm going around in a circle.)
Failstar: Kryptas: Sounds like a great idea, but it's a lot of work to get something that a lot of us just assume to be common sense. We shouldn't have to beg for the ability to purchase something. Never in my life I have seen something backwards where the players have to beg and please the company so that they will allow them to give them their money in exchange for a product. It baffles me. To me personally, common sense dictated that the system would be wildly similar to PangyaKR (Yes, we're not PangyaKR, but since NtreevSoft Develops the game, and they publish PangyaKR, it's logical to assume we'd get a system darn similar to them with Ntreev being it's sister company)...I wouldn't expect Ntreev to Mirror A18's system at all since it was pretty unique to that publisher (I don't believe any other version has the buying these cards Or am I wrong..? I'm not sure). It's sort of like projecting A18 onto Pangya. Different publisher is gonna have a different system.
Well, ya know, that would be fine, but we're not on the same system as KR. We get the cards the same way, but we can't trade rares and I've heard we pay more for the cards(and that possibly the odds are lower than in KR). This is a really, really big deal because if you get a rare you don't want instead of a rare you DO want, it is now worthless to you if you don't play the character. If you get a Ceci wedding dress and you don't play Ceci...well, it has no point. It's going to sit there in your inventory and do nothing because you don't like Ceci(and let's face it, almost no one likes ALL the characters). In KR, you can sell it and use the pang to buy, say, Max Elf Ears if you play Max. And this is just one part of it that disproves the whole argument. I don't think it even needs to go beyond this.