Everything is OPed...
If they were all nerfed, then the game would have their benefitial balance among the rest.
If Lire's ST is taken down several notches, then support.
If Lire's ST is to remain the same, then leave it as it is.
/Support.
Seriously, why did they make it reflect stuff..:< Imo the problem isn't the skill itself, but because Arme can regenerate MP back extremely fast she can abuse it to the fullest. Removing it completely would be a big screw you to the Armes, I remember when fighting ST lires with a non ST Arme, that was hell.
But I do agree for a nerf, I've reflected shockwaves, ice strikes even soul impacts several times and I think that's just way too OP for a 1 bar. I thought mages were supposed to have low def, high atk but with POF Arme has a survivability almost higher than an Elesis.
I think it would be better if the shield would break earlier by melee attacks and that arrows would take longer, what do you think?
ICastPizza
Lv. 34, 45, 54, 15, 20, 21,40
Proud Arme & Amy fan <3
I think it should just give us complete arrow defense and nothing against melees :D
Sounds fair right?
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Zhon: I think it should just give us complete arrow defense and nothing against melees :D Sounds fair right?
yes lol
While I agree on both parts, I find it amusing how the responses go.
"Our Skill Tree NEEDS to be overpowered because Lire's is! Forget those silly Lass and Elesis players who will be decimated now by BOTH Lire and Arme! We need to survive 5,817 arrows per second!"
Balance requires modifying EVERY character so they are all equal, or as close to equal as possible. You can't just toss everyone else out of the picture except for Arme and Lire. I agree that both of their skill trees are ridiculous. I also agree that Lass' skill tree isn't too bad, but it has nothing to counter the crap that Arme and Lire have.
My problem with Armes and Lires before was that they could beat me up from range, and if I managed to get close, they could also beat me up in melee. Between grabs, stone curse, and big shot, I wasn't any better off in my own element than in theirs. The chance to do damage to them, as low as it was, was weighed by them being able to hit me much harder and easier with big skills or grabs. So my choices are stay away, do no damage, but avoid some of theirs, or get close, get blasted, but possibly be able to win the lottery and catch them in a combo before my face is thrown into the pavement.
Now... we have Lire with her fifty different elemental arrows which she can charge and launch at a moment's notice. Either poison which then hastes me into oblivion, allowing her to potentially chain grab me or just slam me in the face with a headshot, or fire, which causes me to become so flinched that I can't DO anything to her in melee anyways. We also have Arme, who can happily toss fireballs at me while saving up MP for a lovely meteor or satellite bomb, and in the mean time due to her stupid fire protection, not only can I not hurt her, but I hurt myself if I try.
Headshot should not exist, at all. There is no reason for a ranged character to get an instant-fatal attack. The only reason Lass has it is because thief has (or well, had, but it still applies to fatal anyways) the lowest range of the melee characters. For him to hit with it required good timing and an opponent who's not paying full attention. Half the time it didn't even work. Now we got Lire who can use a buff to regen to two MP every 20 seconds or so, knocking out fatal shots all through the match from the other side of the map.
As for the elemental arrows, meh. I wouldn't mind them so much if they were 2 MP, but 1 MP means that lire always has a "Get out of melee's kill zone free card" if she does come under attack.
Arme on the other hand doesn't seem all that bad to me, except for the stupid Protection from Fire. her Satellite bomb, while powerful, is less of a threat to me than either Meteor or Firestorm, as it's easier to avoid. Her stone curse level 2 is a bit too strong for a GP 1 bar, and her hold beam really annoys me. Most of the stuff that makes me think Arme is too strong aren't even a part of her skill tree.
Protection from Fire should be changed. Make it either A, reflect half the damage away but only reduce the damage the mage takes by 75%. Make the mage unable to be flinched for the duration of the attack except by grabs and skills, this way they can advance against lire users. The alternative would be that Protection from Fire reduces all damage, but reflects nothing. I personally like that one better. I guess there is a third option, which would be cut Protection from Fire's duration down low enough that they can't just spam it continuously. It shouldn't last long enough for the mage to regen the MP required to use it again, and then some.
Updated levels due to sig file being lost:
Elesis: 41, Lire: 35, Arme: 15, Lass: 47, Ryan: 40, Ronan: 41, Amy: 19, Jin: 30, Sieg: 30
I remember that fight, Kenshin. And to be honest, that was the first time I've used PoF. Lol. That thing has seriously made my playing skill go down. >: I used to could beat most people below lv 50, being in the 40s, with just Saver, albeit the Lires and DAs and just the exceptionally skilled players. And when I got PoF, I was seriously untouchable for a few weeks. Not to brag or anything, but that skill really is ridiculous. And now I've gotten lazy, and rely heavily upon this skill because it's just too good not to use. But then if I restrain myself and set it to another black bar, or just not using it, I find myself getting owned by the other skill trees. ._.
And Zhon, I've been meaning to compose a thread asking the community what good is Mirror nowadays. It can't do ANYTHING except reflect that measly last arrow. Or maybe Big Shot and Flame Arrow. But even those have been rendered obsolete by Fire/Poison Arrow and Stardust Rain. All it's good for now is playing Warlock Tennis.
I understand what you're saying. But it's like, the melees have to suffer with dealing with Arme's ST because of Lire's super hax one. It just doesn't seem quite fair, seeing that the melees are the ones affected by Arme's ST the most, but you need it against those pesky Lires. And then even if we do something about it for the melees, Lire's not going to lower its Fire Arrows for the melees, which is what the attack is mainly aimed against. And now, like Cas (Waters) said, Arme has become one with super high defense. And Lire, who used to be mainly for support, though there are those pro offensive Lires just like the defensive Armes, is suddenly a main attacker.
I agree with everything Zamte has said. I mean, Lires and Armes used to get absolutely owned by the fast melees. And now, if the fast melees are either killing themselves due to PoF, or they're getting skill delayed and eating an aimed Fire Arrow. ._.
And like Iwin said, skills were supposed to provide invincibility. And now it's like, you can kill yourself with one. Dx
I guess it really goes down to what Sia's saying. Lire's ST just needs to be adjusted, so everything else can adjust accordingly. >:
Maybe I'm better off making a "No Skill Tree Mode" idea. :|
Darkboy132: Everything is OPed... If they were all nerfed, then the game would have their benefitial balance among the rest.
The sad part is he's completely serious
I didn't notice you casting it much earlier when I was in that room with you guys. Are you trying to get yourself back away from it?
Another thing I didn't mention before, which I now remember because I've had to do it all day, is that most Arme users play defensively in the sense that they like to run away from you in circles, and you end up chasing them. Before this PoF thing, at least when you caught up to them you could do something about it. I can't count the number of skills I missed today, or the number of times the skill hit and did absolutely nothing because of PoF. At least four venom slashes were eatten by one Arme in one game, because of that skill. It has such a small range but it hits very hard, so it's worth it, except for when it gets sucked into an endless damage absorption skill.
I like the skill, and I think it's handy for arme users since they need some sort of protection against Lire. I just wish it wasn't so bulletproof. Aside from grabbing you, which I'm only assuming goes through it, there's nothing I can do to hurt you, and anything I try has a good chance of backfiring and hurting me on top of the beat down you probably gave me while I was beating myself up.
The only thing I've found worse than a mage spamming PoF the whole game is a mage spamming PoF and her dokaebi pet the whole game. God I hate that stupid little fuzzy thing.
It seems that much of the beef in this thread is against PoF's reflection abilites. Let me clarify them.
The reflection isn't all that powerful if you know how to get around it, because it has very specific strengths and weaknesses. Certain skills and attacks will virtually almost always reflect off PoF, and certain skills and attacks will literally never reflect off PoF. The only exception to this is when some lag is present - in that case, PoF stands a chance at reflecting some (but still not all) moves that would not normally be reflected, under the condition that you hit them on your screen, and on their screen, they have gone out of range, or that you hit then during a skill when your screen sees them as weak and on their screen, they've started the skill (kind of like how lag grabs work). Don't ask me why this is, though.
For example, the following skills (not a comprehensive list) stand an extremely high chance of being reflected by PoF:
The solution? Don't use these skills against a PoF user.
On the other hand, the following skills (not a comprehensive list, again) completely obliterate PoF with absolutely NO chance of being reflected:
In fact, the number of skills that completely destroy PoF way, WAY outnumber the skills that stand a large reflection rate.
From my experience, and from the items that go on each list multihit techniques that do not knock-down tend to reflect at a fairly high rate, and generally, any skill that knocks down, aerials, sets a status effect, does one major large hit, etc. tends not to reflect - there are exceptions, however. But think about it. How many of your skills fall into the former? And how many into the latter? I can name maybe dozen skills that do the former off the top of my head; so what if you're prohibited from using those? Use the overwhelming majority of skills that are still available to you.
The reflection rate is SO EXTREMELY low, that you can pretty much throw it around anytime you want. Okay, you might say, "but my so-and-so reflected this once, so PoF has to be overpowered!" Well, what about the thousands of times it didn't reflect? Don't dwell on the single event that stands out, put it into its proper place as a fairly extraordinary event.
quite the interesting list conspiring,
but let me ask you something
have you considered the other classes that fight it
ive fought plenty of armes with my savior as its my only lvl 40+ character and i cant tell you without a doubt every attack i can do will reflect back to me.
so what does that leave me to do
heres a list of the things that happen to me when i fight someone with PoF
so what can i do, simply run away. but since its only a 1 bar and they can make that mp up fast the minuet its gone and i turn around THEY CAST IT AGAIN.
then in Colosseum ive encountered armes that for one are 50+ then they cast PoF, and use dobeki.
i was thinking what if when PoF is cast they cant generate MP?
just a suggestion.
Fire shield.
Counter for Lire, annoying Lass's make it fair against aegis knight.
One thing you didn't think of.
Arme has by far the most pathetic melee skills ever.
In fact I've noticed no other character is stunned from an attack as long as her.
With her low defense that can be bad, reflect doesn't have the higher rate either, just grab.
As a melee Arme I'd be in trouble without that move.
That is, sense I am often facing players with way higher stats close range battle.
...I don't really see the problem with STs...nor PoF.I don't have trouble with Lire or Arme, because I adapted to them both.Then again, Twin Blade takes away PoF, and doesn't always reflect.~/No Support, just because I don't want to watch the massive amounts of crying. Which may or may not be a valid reason.
~I do what I do, when I choose, why I wish.~
I don't know about your list. It may work that way for you, but it doesn't seem to work that way for me.
I fought pretty much nothing but armes today, in all my PvP matches there was at least one on the opposite team every time, and almost all of them had this skill. In fact, I see it so often I actually thought it was a GP skill until my friend told me otherwise today. (I don't play Arme at all)
One of these Arme was... pretty terrible. The whole match all she did was run and fireball, and cast PoF. Several times I got a chance to use my full combo, as a Skill Tree Lass. That is, my normal combo plus the air attacks and the backflip kick. I combo'ed her like this at least three times over our five or six matches, and every single time I sat there and watched my HP drop with each hit I landed on her. Every single one of them hurt me. The same occurred with my Level 1 Shadow Stranger, and my Venom Slice as I previously mentioned went without hitting her at all, though didn't hit me either.
In fact, the only ability I had which I could possibly hit her with was my spring slash, and only the initial hit damaged her and didn't reflect back on me. The following three slashes all hit me. The only effective way to combat one of these Arme PoF users is to use nothing but grabs. I've never noticed it reflect a grab, so I assume it can't/won't. Now I play a Lass, so grabbing is a bit easier as I can move quickly and drop to the ground fast after a jump, but I still cannot fight with nothing but grabs against Arme and her giant explosions every 3 seconds.
My friend and couple who's main is Arme claims that PoF has a weakness which makes the user very vulnerable to status effects, and claims that if you use stone curse, ice pixie, or some other type of immobilization technique while they're casting a skill, it will always knock them out of it anyways as if they had no invincibility frames. I'm not sure if I actually managed to do this properly or not, but I didn't notice it happen.