Tips & Tricks

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

fgvnfjf — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 05:10:24 GMT

ugh... I don't want to hear this stuff OVER and OVER. I make one mistake and ppl miss a 3 bar. ONE mistake. I cannot read minds here, and an unhappy teammate convinced the host to kick me with LIES! saying I was a leech=EPIC FAIL. I just don't like it when people get all nitpicky from one mistake. Usually it won't cost the whole dungeon. I agree with what you said, but some ppl need slack sometimes.

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

megagoten — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:46:42 GMT

... Aura, please don't ever necro again...

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

AuraBlaze — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 12:39:09 GMT

I'm going to bump this since so many people are ticking me off in dungeons. While I'll let the occasional mistakes pass I won't for the people that constantly repeat them. Why must everyone knock over monsters?

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

leonid1995 — Wed, 07 May 2008 09:54:24 GMT

AAAAAAAAAAh!!!AAAAAAAAAAAAh its too big!!!!!!!!!!!! it hurts!!!!!!!!!! It hurts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*shits come out*leonid1995 faints*

lol Big shits lol.

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

Dangox777 — Wed, 07 May 2008 04:43:58 GMT

kk this was such a good guide u shud tell lots of people abt this so noobs will stio wasting ur mp -_-

But err i thinmk u shud fix this ._.

Big Shot - A decent 1 bar that you can aim with. The best thins about this special is that you can aim it. It gives the special as much accuracy as your normal shots. The can also be chained together for multiple big shits.

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

leonid1995 — Sat, 03 May 2008 09:38:58 GMT

NicolasVerdi:
I think that juggling Gaikoz is a good idea. It´s one of the most sure ways to avoid it´s attacks

she didnt say juggling gaikoz is a bad idea.

she sayed that doing it without thinking will most likely be a bad idea becouse it will fail and if it will you migh have done more efficiant fighting witout it.

I should know

it takes lots of practise and thought to juggle with normal atack(elesis ronan lass and maybe ryan)
and if you just jump atack without thinking you will most likely do it in thw wrong minute and jump to far to actually hit him or wont reach him becouse he's too high.

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

leonid1995 — Sat, 03 May 2008 09:33:14 GMT

Transition:
Like I said, we have different views on the meanings of these words :P. The reason I added PVP into this is because since the game is centered around pvp, most people will try to play in a dungeon like they would in pvp, which is probably causing most of that problem in the first place. I'm only showing my points to you because that is the point of your common player. I never said that the guide affected me in any way, I just wanted to show you that the common player is probably not going to even bother trying these tactics since it basically says to stop almost everything they do in a dungeon.
This is Sortie, leaving this thread for the sake of my own time.

actually I agree with the post starter.

I do the same tactic and I find it much faster and easier passing a dungeon like that.

if you do a knockdown your basicly not doing the extra 30 hits you could have done in the time your waiting for the mob to get up.

I ussually do those things but carefully.

I try to knock down mobs that I know can siriusly injure me.

and I use jump atack to control the way a boss is facing.

for instance I make gaikoz turn his back on the wall so he dosent surprise me with something like double slash when I do the most popular tactic "letting him corner you with his back to get some back atacks"

and if you try to do something like jumping atacks on a heavy enemy you wont do the actuall areal atack part of it and still knock him down or will just miss both atacks.

to sammurize button mashing is fine but just fighting like that without thinking at all will most likely kill you and/or annoy your teammates so they curse you and/or leave the room making you have to solo and die(you are a mage afterall).

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

NicolasVerdi — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:11:28 GMT

I think that juggling Gaikoz is a good idea. It´s one of the most sure ways to avoid it´s attacks

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

Knoea — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:13:49 GMT

im always juggling gaikoz using ronan and many annoys me doing that hahahahaha!

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

NicolasVerdi — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:43:14 GMT

Most of good old beat ´em up games (and fighting games, of course) had the infinite combo wich wouldn´t let te enemy move fixed in some way. Some other less quality games (Like some Sailor Moon on Sega Genesis) didn´t, and that made that games reaaaaally easy and boring once you know that trick. No enemy or boss could do anything about that so... you´d always win.

Well, most of the bosses have armored moves that prevents us for infinite comboing them. But It still suprisses me that they still don´t fix the glitch on normal enemies. I know how hard it would be for programmers to find a way to do this, without bothering other things, like the ones you mentioned before, but I´m sure it´s not impossible. Like I said before, most of old games that played like this one (of course, not online) cared to fix it. It´s strange they keep it on this one

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

Transition — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:35:29 GMT

Like I said, we have different views on the meanings of these words :P. The reason I added PVP into this is because since the game is centered around pvp, most people will try to play in a dungeon like they would in pvp, which is probably causing most of that problem in the first place. I'm only showing my points to you because that is the point of your common player. I never said that the guide affected me in any way, I just wanted to show you that the common player is probably not going to even bother trying these tactics since it basically says to stop almost everything they do in a dungeon.

This is Sortie, leaving this thread for the sake of my own time.

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

lilneko — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:12:03 GMT

While that is button mashing, it is controlled and you can still stop yourself before the last hit and that is understandable.

Yes the game is fast paced, but it is slowed down when you have to wait for the monster to get back up after some one keeps knocking it down. As for the game being centered on PVP, most skilled based games are like that. But this is a dungeon crawling guide, not PVP. This for improvement in dungeons, PVP shouldn't be mentioned at all. I party with random people most of the time. Rarely do I party with people I like to party with because they are doing something else in game. Most of my parties are with other random people and I've seen very good ones and very bad ones. And as you said, you let them do their thing. You aren't knocking down the monsters they are fighting and annoying them. You are staying out of their way. But when you annoying your team, that is when knockdowns become bothersome, like I said before.

There is no such thing as tactical spamming. Being around to do something without thinking about it, even if it is over and over again is just learning something until it becomes second nature. Spamming is doing something annoying over and over again.

You are allowed to play however you want. If that works for you, then it works for you. But I'm saying from experience that it will annoy everyone else. The guide is meant to help people improve. If you are happy with the way you play, then play that way. But I feel my guide speaks on behave of many other players that are annoyed by the same things I am.

As for improvement for player 27+, I still see people doing the same annoying things

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

NicolasVerdi — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:15:11 GMT

I agree with almost everything Transition said.

I´d like to add that maybe players around lvl 27 doesn´t really get the common sense for playing well without bothering teammates... Maybe it´s just that players without that common sense, doesn´t usually reach high lvls :)

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

Transition — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:17:19 GMT

Unfortunately, I think we have different views as to what button mashing and spamming actually is. For me, button mashing is pressing a button more than it actually needs to be pressed (which most people need to do in this game since it's very hard to tell the right time to press the button again). The mashing can be controlled by many, but it's also uncontrollable to many more, therefor making it a button masher.

Yes, when it comes to that specific example of a knockdown, it's very annoying, I'll agree with that. I think the game is a bit too fast paced and too centered around pvp for most people to even try or care. From what you say, I believe that you have a specific team that you always go through dungeons with, and if I'm right, then it's almost impossible to get this type of cooperation from some random team like I usually get into. Also, with the magic circle, you can just do a critical attack at the right time to gracefully glide past the attack. If it's an Anmon Guard come-up attack, then you can use Earthwave at the right time to dodge it.

Spamming is not always just randomly using an attack over and over again, it's doing many of the same attacks in a fast paced succession. It can be a tactical spam, where you do put thought behind your spam, or it can be reckless spam, where you just do things over and over again without thinking. That 1% of people I was talking about is a group of people who do not button mash (in my description) and are using tactical spam, since a very small population of people can do both.

If you can do back attacks well, then go ahead and never do the critical/double attack since it doesn't matter. I just find it slower to get through if you're not too great at winding up a good back attack, therefor the double attack works perfectly for those like me. I don't find archer knockdowns in teams that bad, since I usually just let them do their thing while I go on to fight another monster and possibly attack the one the archer is attacking when it gets up until they do the double attack again.

As for an improvement...players usually get the common sense to not do these annoying things by level 27+. Not saying that this thread didn't cause any changes, but enough complaining while in a dungeon can work wonders...

Re: Dungeon Crawling for Dummies

lilneko — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:49:03 GMT

Thank you all for your input, I'll add the helpful tidbits when I get out of my lazy fit and finish this.

To KirbyCode: While 1 bar specials are harder to spot, it's easy to tell when some one his charging when they are standing near a monster doing nothing, or they are not attack and moving toward a group without attacking. Being able to tell when some one is about to use a special isn’t all that hard. If an archer is about to use Arrow rain, they will run under something. If a Knight is about to use Air Spiral, they will run under something as well. All it takes is a little observation and you'll be about to tell 90% of the time.

To NicolasVerdi: It's not so much that it is an unbreakable infinite combo, but a better alternative than knocking them down. In most games with or 2 button combos, stopping short will always like you start up again quickly as oppose to doing a full combo. There is nothing wrong with it and it is not like if it unstoppable. It is just a better way of playing IMO.

To Transition: While you may think this is a button mashing game, it isn't. You can play however you feel like it when you solo, but as a team and with others around, it is better to work together as a team. Randomly button mashing doesn’t not achieve that and actually makes people annoying each other. Sure, the game is skilled based; the roles of a player don't change. Elesis has more defense for a reason. She has to take hits, she's a melee fighter. Lire and Arme have longer range and so they don't need their defense and focus on power and evasion. It's not to say that they can't fulfill the roles of another, but it is true that they have their roles. You ask what Arme is suppose to do when things are close? You get out of the way. You have teammates for a reason, use them. I can understand if you are soloing. Do whatever you want then, but as a team, play like a team. I'd also like to add that not all attacks are avoidable. Tyr dashing away or jumping away after doing a magic circle with Arme and see how well you dodge something.

As for knocking things down, you don’t seem to understand how annoying it is. Let me paint a picture. If you are sitting there, attacking a monster and tearing it up just fine, you are happy. But then some random teammate, runs over, knocks it down and then run to another monster because they don't feel like waiting for it to get up, it'll piss you off. Spamming dash attack doesn't kill monsters and it makes things take longer. Sure, knocking it down once or twice, fine, but every 2 seconds is extremely annoying.

As for Spamming, come on now...it gets you nowhere. Spamming earth wave instead of actually timing it will get you killed and make you waste a lot of time. I follow my rules and I still get plenty of 5 stars. Why? Because I have played with a good team that doesn't spam or button mash. We think about what we do when we do it and it is a lot more efficient. The two scores are Power and Control. Power is made up of critical attacks, double attacks, and specials. As a play, I use my specials often, unless I'm fighting a boss. I only critical or double when I need to knock something off a ledge or knock down combo breaking enemies, like orcs. Control is based on back attacks and aerial attacks. I rarely ever attack a monster's front. In fact, I never do it unless I have to. (i.e. Partusay, Basilisk) Aerials I only do to help archers and mages juggle. And yet even like this and without spamming or button mashing I get 100s in both. So I don't see how playing recklessly is better than playing with some actual thought.

A lot of players put thought behind their actions. You can't juggle kill a boss' full health by button mashing. You can kill a boss without losing a life or even taking damage without thinking about what you do. You can’t chain specials as a team by spamming. Having everyone do a special at once and only one hitting isn’t as cool if using storm blade to launch a boss, Kanavan strike to keep him in the air, Dive Bombing to stack damage and finishing it with rune spiral. (Most bad ass Kamiki pwnage I've even done in my life...>.>)

Should a bit of this is out of frustration, but it helps and it works. I know it does because after I wrote this and talked about it online, I've seen an improvement in the general amount of players. And I also know I'm not the only one and that there are many of us that agree with what I have written.