http://forum.ntreev.net/grandchase/forums/t/60200.aspx- The thread which gave me inspiration
K, I will start with the following understatement:
I was never, ever ever ever, owned by this skill on the count that I'm a pro grabber(And I never experienced any of the skills "unfair" qualities in any of my matches", but since this is being whined about, I will simply make a suggestion that I thought about.
Now, someone suggested to make it not let you recharge mp while it's active. I think this is way too much as it won't allow for delay's for it's duration. I have a better idea- make it not only not let you recover hp in it's duration, make it drain hp a little. That way, a guy can't run and charge hp or just chase after you knowing that you receive so little damage that you will recharge it. You'll actually lose hp when you use it, demoting the spam of the skill and promoting a more strategic game play.
P.S: Even though this wasn't his idea, since I got inspired by him, all credit to this idea belongs to kenshin90991(In other words, flame him, not me)
My suggestion towards your suggestion is making another suggestion that doesn't involve a "stupid" suggestion. Kthx bai :) (SushiCookie)
/no support on this method, its a cash unlocked skill for a reason... which is not to be overtake by saviour lv 2.
Arinoa:
This one's a winner!
Are you saying that to me or to the creator of the thread I put a link to in the OP?
I merely put it here so it wouldn't get burried in all the flame.
lol
throw me in the fire
hahahaha
/No Support
1: It's cash for a reason
2: Multi-hit skills completely ignore this shield
3: Grab = No shield.
If you think Myurin is over-powered, I applaud you. Your the first person with an IQ below 5 to figure out how to use a keyboard AND the internet...at the same time.
what do you mean multi hit.
for example
saviors 2nd bar is that a multi hit?
or saviors 3rd bar is that
and if you say yes
then yes it does count those as i killed myself with it haha. darn you sumi! lol
Yes, exactly. Xeno's 1st bar is another great example.
Depends on if the multi hit skill is hittin in a delay or not, cause if you are hit in a delay multiple times, it only counts as 1 hit.
Draining your hp while using the shield destroys the purpose of the skill imo.
/no support. ._.
Yoza~
Unfortunantly... I think it requires too much coding...
Its better if we just nerf the reflected damage to 10%.
I don't understand how anyone can support keeping this terrible skill.
Arme is already invincible during her teleport frames, she's invincible while using shockwave, she's invincible while skilling. Now, as arme users, can you honestly tell me there's a lot of the time you're not doing one of the above? Every Arme I fight teleports like a maniac to run while throwing fireballs backwards. IF they stop, it's only because they have the MP to skill or because they see a chance to use the ridiculous shockwave grab technique.
You're already literally invincible for 90% of the time you're playing. We can't hit you with skills unless we happen to aim where you're going to be, exactly when you land there. If we're even a bit off you end up behind us or far enough away that you don't get hit by the skill.
Arme has more ways of avoiding damage than anybody else does, or ever will. She's already capable of teleporting right through Lire's arrows that all her players seem so afraid of, without being hit at all, and she can hit the Lire back from far enough away that the Lire can't just poison/fire/ice arrow her in the face and then grab her like Lire does to everyone else.
How can you justify needing further ways of making yourself invincible? Why don't we just make Arme immune to all damage 100% of the time and save you guys 1 MP every 30 seconds? She doesn't need any more invincibility. She's already way too capable of avoiding or becoming immune to damage without PoF.
All the Arme users also want to claim it breaks easily, but it doesn't. I've used every skill in my Lass' arsenal to hit them during the skill, and nothing damages them, and most things damage me. I have all his cash skills unlocked too, so my arsenal is plenty varied. The only thing that breaks it effectively is a grab, and grabbing her is near impossible when she can do a shockwave while being comboed, as has been happening to me all day. I just get grabbed instead.
You don't need it. You're already defensive and invulnerable enough. We need to be able to do damage to you consistantly enough that you can't just regen it all back in the five minutes it takes us to deal more. Anybody who thinks that removing or modifying it would be unfair probably doesn't spend enough time playing a character that isn't Arme. Try playing a melee against a PoF user who's good at moving around and keeping at a distance and tell me it doesn't frusterate you to no end.
Updated levels due to sig file being lost:
Elesis: 41, Lire: 35, Arme: 15, Lass: 47, Ryan: 40, Ronan: 41, Amy: 19, Jin: 30, Sieg: 30
zamte: I don't understand how anyone can support keeping this terrible skill. Arme is already invincible during her teleport frames
Arme is already invincible during her teleport frames
*Edit*
Do you realize how poor Arme's melee abilities are?
For starters, no character is stunned from an attack as long as her.
She has power attackds when it comes to close range.
She has enormous flaws.
i dont really have a problem with arme having this skill
what i have a problem with is how accessible it is.
i mean c'mon a skill that makes everyone run away from you, and in that time you can either
-save your mp
-cast again
either way melee's are screwed
if we attack them they will kill us while having PoF, if we run the process is repeated until either we get lucky or the arme decides to do something else. i have never seen a skill like that
Oh God, not this again.
Arme is FINE the way she is.
zamte, her dashing does not make her invincible, in fact, it make her even more vulnerable than she already is. She can still take possibly some serious damage from a sonic wave, even in the middle of her dash. Protection from fire is the only efficient and accessible skill that she has that makes up for her horrid defense.
Protection from fire is FINE. You people need to learn how to get around it instead of QQing and begging for a nerf.
IGN: AzelfofLight
She has very few weaknesses, and the ones she has are so closely guarded they offer no opening for us anyways.
Azelf, since you decided to post while I was posting, I'll address you here. You're wrong. Plain and simple. Her teleport dash makes her invincible to damage everywhere but the start and end points. Yes, skills like Sonic blow can still hit her because they move along the path she's taking, and hit her at one of the two points, thus knocking her out of the teleport, and damaging her. Other skills however, she can teleport right past, as if she's going behind them, with no damage at all. You know how I know this for a fact? It's been done to me countless times in the last 48 hours. I have used Shadow Stranger, slashing zig-zag style along a path that the arme IS standing along, dozens of times, and probably 80% of the time, the Arme is totally unaffected as she continues to happily slide along her teleport path.
You have lots and LOTS of invincibility frames. THAT is your defense. THAT is how it should be. Yes, the reality is that if by some miracle somebody hits you, then you're going to be hit harder than other people. That's called balance. The reality remains that it's harder for anybody to actually hit you as an arme than any other class in the game.
Now, I want to do a little comparison here.
Each character has a main source of damage. For Lire, they expect her to use her arrows. For Arme, she's expected to get most of her damage from skills. The melee classes are various combination of combos and skills. For instance, Lass uses some ranged attacks and some skills moreso than his combo. On the other hand characters like Ryan and Ronan have some pretty lethal combos.
Now this is where the issue comes in. Everyone has very potent melee-ranged abilities. Lire has melee attacks she can cancel her combos with in 3rd and 4th job, and I believe she gets a couple similar things from her skill tree. Arme has her shockwave, as well as a melee combo with her skill tree if you decide to take it. Melee characters have... melee combos. Everyone has a grab.
So we have... Arme who can destroy the world with skills that do enough damage to one hit kill enemies, and hit the entire map, or at least very large areas. Lire can launch arrows at the speed of light and hit any corner of the map from any other corner. Melee characters can... do melee combos, or use melee skills.
So say we have a survival game with a Lire, an Arme, and and an Elesis, since they all have skill trees. The arme begins running in circles shooting firebolts and blasting off skills as the opportunity arises, the lire picks a corner and begins letting the arrows fly. What does the Elesis do? Well, ideally, she moves as fast as her fingers will carry her after an opponent. Let us assume she goes for the Arme. The arme is undamageable during her dash teleport, so the Elesis cannot just try to run ahead and guess where the Arme is going, because doing so will likely make her skill at a teleporting Arme, thus wasting her skill. If she chases, she's going to be getting constantly pelted with low damage attacks such as firebolts until she manages to catch up. Now what? Well. Now we have melee range, where the Elesis should shine, but no, she doesn't. Why? The lag in this game makes getting combos off nearly impossible, and the Arme has better, bigger, and faster skills to counter the Elesis' skill, if she tries to use one. However since the Arme is the one in control of the movement, she can choose to charge right before hand to get the preemptive anyways. Even if the Elesis were to try to combo, as soon as the Arme sees her dash at her, she's going to shockwave and then grab the Elesis. Elesis falls to the ground in either situation, and Arme continues to run and gun.
You're stronger in melee than we melee classes are, because unlike us, you have specific abilities given to you to cover your weakness in melee, that are specifically designed for combatting enemies who're smacking you around. On the other hand, the answer to any question about what melee players have is "A combo". Our combo is expected to cover all of our bases, and anything it doesn't we're meant to make up for with skills. The problem with this is in the fact that a combo cannot adapt to every combat situation. Our combos are useless at range, and they're pretty useless in PvP because lag allows your melee-specific abilities to out-prioritize our general-purpose combo, and your skills outdo ours because they're your "focus".
The reality is that for the vast majority of the melee characters, all we can do in PvP is spam jump attacks, spam 1 bars, since we can use them frequently, or attempt to get a combo off in futility. It may be a bit more complex than that, but for explanation's sake it works. On the other hand, you have specific abilities for every possible situation. You have shockwave to thwart anybody trying to combo you, firebolts for easy range damage, pentagrams for pushing, giant skills for damage dealing, smaller one bars for immobilizing enemies, a teleport that allows you to move with very few worries, and an air grab that will knock the opponent away 99% of the time, even if they have more range on their weapon than you do, for some reason I still do not understand.
Yes, it's easy to get around the shield, "Just grab them!". You underestimate how hard it is to grab an Arme without a good bit of lag on your side. Her 1 MP skills, such as stone curse and hold beam are a major issue for us, and if we go in for a grab we're putting ourselves right in range for them. The same goes for shockwave. Quick to get off, not interruptable as you're immune during the animation, large range, stops us with flinch frames long enough for you to grab us for high damage.
On the other hand, against a Lire you have no worries at all. The funniest part to me though is how the situation has reversed itself. Melee complain about archers because the arrows, particularly those from Xbow and Arch Ranger, and now Barrage archers, push us back and keep us from advancing. We were always told by Arme players "At least you have arrow defense!". Now that the shoe's on the other foot, the Arme players are the ones who "need" defense from Archer's arrows. You guys can teleport right through the streams of arrows. Just like other sources of damage, the arrows only damage you at the start and end points of your teleport. This means you can easily advance on a Lire already. On the other hand we melee users are still stuck unable to advance. The arrows DO less damage per hit to us than to you, this is true, but you get hit by one, if you're unlucky. We get hit by ALL of them. Furthermore, if we're moving forward and we get hit, all forward momentum is automatically and instantly stopped and we get hammered by the rest of the combo. If anybody needs defense from archers, it's the melee classes. Yet now that you have a skill that makes you entirely immune to arrows and doesn't stop you from advancing on a Lire at all, you deserve to keep it, while we should be stuck with our arrow defense pinning us down.
I just find the excuses for this skill to be ridiculous. Armes already do decently at avoiding Lire's arrows due to teleport making them invincible. Melees can't even move closer to a Lire user because of the arrows stopping our forward movement, yet somehow the Arme players are the ones who need help? The shield certainly isn't needed against melee, because we've always had disadvantages against both Arme and Lire. So why is the shield needed? All anybody in these threads can do is say "But it's not overpowered, we swear!", nobody can give me a good reason WHY they need such a skill, or why they, the class who's already best by a long shot at being immune to things, and avoiding things, the only class who can teleport right through skills and take no damage, need an invincible mode skill, let alone one that reflects and only costs 1 MP.