As far as I could gather from the past couple of posts, we're basically reiterating the same thing.
Grab sucks because laggers abuse it and kill people too quickly.
However...
The best way to defeat laggers is with grabs.
If grabs were taken out, it would be nearly impossible to finish a match with a lagger, like Curia said. If they lagged a little, then the flinch doesn't happen until .5 seconds later and you can't possibly hope to combo somebody. If they lagged a lot, you'd be swinging wildly and would not be able to even fight.
If laggers have grabs, then you're screwed. However, you're screwed no matter what laggers have, because OLOL THEY LAG.
I've already made my statement that I'm strongly against grab disabled/enabled rooms. Too many people would make grab disabled rooms, and people who play in grab enabled rooms would be called noobs. If you were to find a grab enabled room, it'd be hard as crap because you have to not ony find your level limit, but you'd have to pray you find one that doesn't say, "NO LIRE/ARME/AMY/RYAN/LASS,".
And grabbing really is a core part of gameplay. I bet I have played a match where I haven't grabbed, but I bet 99% of my matches, I grabbed at least once, and in 90% of my wins, grabbing helped me win. I usually grab a couple of times per match, and it helps a lot. It gives me time to think, it gives me time to reposition myself, and it catches someone who lags slightly and likes to run away.
There's basically two options: 1) Segregate grab rooms and non-grab rooms and forever screw up PvP, or 2) Have people who dislike grabs learn to deal with it and know how to avoid them.
Sounds harsh, but it's how I feel, and I strongly feel it's the truth.
I remember back than when I was a noob I'd stereotype grabbers that way.
Seriously guys
How would Tia fight in Lunia online if they removed air combos?
How would mage pures PK in runescape if they took away ancient spells?!?
How would an xbow lire be able to kill ANYTHING without grab?
How would YOU kill a Lire without grab?
How would YOU use Arme if you couldn't grab?(yeah you hypocrites just LOVE to spam stone curse as if it's the most freaking usefull skill, but when you start facing pros, prepare to do 22 damage each time)
How would you use your favorate bandwagon characters Lass and Ronan without grabs? Scratch Ronan, Ronan is the ONLY character that would do SLIGHTLY good if he couldn't grab.
I'll bet half of these grab complaints are coming from Ronan users themselves. They're so overpowered and noob-friendly that you don't even need to adapt to grab, when you can just use infinite sword and divine slash the entire match.
In gunz, how BORING would it be if there were no ''butterfly'' tricks and all that crap?
On halo, what if you just took out every explosive weapon there was because you deemed them ''cheap''?
Seriously, lets just turn pvp into a beauty salon
I heard this quote somewhere on the forum
''Hi! I'm paper! Rock can stay just the way it is but scissors is just to powerfull! It needs to be nerfed''!
This game would have NO variety in it, NO killing, NO skill involved in it, no ANYTHING. This game would be really really REALLY dull if it had no grabs.
What if in fire emblem, you took out all mages in it because they kill your generals to fast?
What if you took out lords because they're to strong and cheap?
This game would be flat out black and white if that happened, and it would be REALLY boring, and not even worth playing.
You can say you hate grabs now, but come a few months, when you actually stop sucking and LEARN how to play, you'll see it differently.
I would know this because I went through the noob phase to, I used to think grab was absoloutely skilless and cheap.
In fact, half of us did.
Seriously, I could think of a million more rhetorical questions, but dang guys. This ISN'T super smash brothers brawl, grab spamming TAKES A SIGNIFIGANT AMOUNT OF SKILL TO DO. If you don't like grabbing, go back to your laggy ass wifi matches with your no-grab rules. I hope you have fun taking out that shield spammer when grab becomes prohibited.
Arme: THE HOLY LIGHT WILL EAT US!!! BM second white magic: FREEZING SKIRTS! (really)
i suggest limited grabs
for example: 3 to 5 grabs per combat
so no one can abuse of it ^_^
cronnoponno:I remember back than when I was a noob I'd stereotype grabbers that way. Seriously guys How would Tia fight in Lunia online if they removed air combos?How would mage pures PK in runescape if they took away ancient spells?!?How would an xbow lire be able to kill ANYTHING without grab?How would YOU kill a Lire without grab?How would YOU use Arme if you couldn't grab?(yeah you hypocrites just LOVE to spam stone curse as if it's the most freaking usefull skill, but when you start facing pros, prepare to do 22 damage each time) How would you use your favorate bandwagon characters Lass and Ronan without grabs? Scratch Ronan, Ronan is the ONLY character that would do SLIGHTLY good if he couldn't grab. I'll bet half of these grab complaints are coming from Ronan users themselves. They're so overpowered and noob-friendly that you don't even need to adapt to grab, when you can just use infinite sword and divine slash the entire match. In gunz, how BORING would it be if there were no ''butterfly'' tricks and all that crap? On halo, what if you just took out every explosive weapon there was because you deemed them ''cheap''? Seriously, lets just turn pvp into a beauty salon I heard this quote somewhere on the forum ''Hi! I'm paper! Rock can stay just the way it is but scissors is just to powerfull! It needs to be nerfed''! This game would have NO variety in it, NO killing, NO skill involved in it, no ANYTHING. This game would be really really REALLY dull if it had no grabs. What if in fire emblem, you took out all mages in it because they kill your generals to fast? What if you took out lords because they're to strong and cheap? This game would be flat out black and white if that happened, and it would be REALLY boring, and not even worth playing. You can say you hate grabs now, but come a few months, when you actually stop sucking and LEARN how to play, you'll see it differently.I would know this because I went through the noob phase to, I used to think grab was absoloutely skilless and cheap.In fact, half of us did. Seriously, I could think of a million more rhetorical questions, but dang guys. This ISN'T super smash brothers brawl, grab spamming TAKES A SIGNIFIGANT AMOUNT OF SKILL TO DO. If you don't like grabbing, go back to your laggy ass wifi matches with your no-grab rules. I hope you have fun taking out that shield spammer when grab becomes prohibited.
How does an ability that dwarfs all others make fighting better? Maybe you should stop worrying about trying to win all the time and save yourself and others' frustration by actually thinking about what's CAUSING the frustration.
In SSBB you can't just run up against somebody and attack to grab them, you have to activate the grab yourself and deal with a grabbing animation before you can actually grab someone. But after that your "grabee" can still break out of your grab, and other things can still hurt you and knock you out of grabbing. Actually, there isn't any actual "grabbing" in GC; characters just magically magnetize their hands or whatever to other characters and then proceed to throwing them to the ground.
gamer87: I'm saying you get the same effect you get from a grab with your skill bars-even better.So why do you need grab?
I'm saying you get the same effect you get from a grab with your skill bars-even better.
So why do you need grab?
cuz it doesnt need MP?
Jakalak: cronnoponno: I remember back than when I was a noob I'd stereotype grabbers that way. Seriously guys How would Tia fight in Lunia online if they removed air combos?How would mage pures PK in runescape if they took away ancient spells?!?How would an xbow lire be able to kill ANYTHING without grab?How would YOU kill a Lire without grab?How would YOU use Arme if you couldn't grab?(yeah you hypocrites just LOVE to spam stone curse as if it's the most freaking usefull skill, but when you start facing pros, prepare to do 22 damage each time) How would you use your favorate bandwagon characters Lass and Ronan without grabs? Scratch Ronan, Ronan is the ONLY character that would do SLIGHTLY good if he couldn't grab.I'll bet half of these grab complaints are coming from Ronan users themselves. They're so overpowered and noob-friendly that you don't even need to adapt to grab, when you can just use infinite sword and divine slash the entire match.Ronan's aren't overpowered. If a Ronan actually beats you spamming infinity sword or divine slash, you really need to train more.(AK's are really good, but 98% of people use them wrong, and people still complain about them...)In gunz, how BORING would it be if there were no ''butterfly'' tricks and all that crap? On halo, what if you just took out every explosive weapon there was because you deemed them ''cheap''? Seriously, lets just turn pvp into a beauty salon I heard this quote somewhere on the forum ''Hi! I'm paper! Rock can stay just the way it is but scissors is just to powerfull! It needs to be nerfed''! This game would have NO variety in it, NO killing, NO skill involved in it, no ANYTHING. This game would be really really REALLY dull if it had no grabs. What if in fire emblem, you took out all mages in it because they kill your generals to fast? What if you took out lords because they're to strong and cheap? This game would be flat out black and white if that happened, and it would be REALLY boring, and not even worth playing. You can say you hate grabs now, but come a few months, when you actually stop sucking and LEARN how to play, you'll see it differently.I would know this because I went through the noob phase to, I used to think grab was absoloutely skilless and cheap.In fact, half of us did. Seriously, I could think of a million more rhetorical questions, but dang guys. This ISN'T super smash brothers brawl, grab spamming TAKES A SIGNIFIGANT AMOUNT OF SKILL TO DO. If you don't like grabbing, go back to your laggy ass wifi matches with your no-grab rules. I hope you have fun taking out that shield spammer when grab becomes prohibited. How does an ability that dwarfs all others make fighting better? Maybe you should stop worrying about trying to win all the time and save yourself and others' frustration by actually thinking about what's CAUSING the frustration.In SSBB you can't just run up against somebody and attack to grab them, you have to activate the grab yourself and deal with a grabbing animation before you can actually grab someone. But after that your "grabee" can still break out of your grab, and other things can still hurt you and knock you out of grabbing. Actually, there isn't any actual "grabbing" in GC; characters just magically magnetize their hands or whatever to other characters and then proceed to throwing them to the ground.
cronnoponno: I remember back than when I was a noob I'd stereotype grabbers that way. Seriously guys How would Tia fight in Lunia online if they removed air combos?How would mage pures PK in runescape if they took away ancient spells?!?How would an xbow lire be able to kill ANYTHING without grab?How would YOU kill a Lire without grab?How would YOU use Arme if you couldn't grab?(yeah you hypocrites just LOVE to spam stone curse as if it's the most freaking usefull skill, but when you start facing pros, prepare to do 22 damage each time) How would you use your favorate bandwagon characters Lass and Ronan without grabs? Scratch Ronan, Ronan is the ONLY character that would do SLIGHTLY good if he couldn't grab.I'll bet half of these grab complaints are coming from Ronan users themselves. They're so overpowered and noob-friendly that you don't even need to adapt to grab, when you can just use infinite sword and divine slash the entire match.Ronan's aren't overpowered. If a Ronan actually beats you spamming infinity sword or divine slash, you really need to train more.(AK's are really good, but 98% of people use them wrong, and people still complain about them...)In gunz, how BORING would it be if there were no ''butterfly'' tricks and all that crap? On halo, what if you just took out every explosive weapon there was because you deemed them ''cheap''? Seriously, lets just turn pvp into a beauty salon I heard this quote somewhere on the forum ''Hi! I'm paper! Rock can stay just the way it is but scissors is just to powerfull! It needs to be nerfed''! This game would have NO variety in it, NO killing, NO skill involved in it, no ANYTHING. This game would be really really REALLY dull if it had no grabs. What if in fire emblem, you took out all mages in it because they kill your generals to fast? What if you took out lords because they're to strong and cheap? This game would be flat out black and white if that happened, and it would be REALLY boring, and not even worth playing. You can say you hate grabs now, but come a few months, when you actually stop sucking and LEARN how to play, you'll see it differently.I would know this because I went through the noob phase to, I used to think grab was absoloutely skilless and cheap.In fact, half of us did. Seriously, I could think of a million more rhetorical questions, but dang guys. This ISN'T super smash brothers brawl, grab spamming TAKES A SIGNIFIGANT AMOUNT OF SKILL TO DO. If you don't like grabbing, go back to your laggy ass wifi matches with your no-grab rules. I hope you have fun taking out that shield spammer when grab becomes prohibited.
Ronan's aren't overpowered. If a Ronan actually beats you spamming infinity sword or divine slash, you really need to train more.(AK's are really good, but 98% of people use them wrong, and people still complain about them...)
Why do you think grabbing is "an ability that dwarfs all others?"
Grabbing really only excels, and when I say excels, I mean is better than any other option, in two situations.
1) When you're fighting someone who lags a lot.
2) When you're trying to catch someone who runs a lot.
If you aren't in these situations (and most of the time, you aren't) then grabbing is another attack that's just as powerful as any other attack you can do. Grabbing? Easy to execute, decent damage. Combos? Harder to execute, excellent damage. Skills? Generally easier to execute, damage varies a lot. You mix the three together in regular combat.
Obviously, some classes grab much more than others. Lass's 1st probably grabs the most, but that's because Lass's 1st has horrible damaging combos, no air dash, etc. There's a delay time with their level 1 skill, so with that, they'll grab you. It's really hard to get out of that, but it is possible. Other classes, such as Arme's 1st and Archranger grab a lot also. Of course I'd rather use Saviour+grab than a stone curse, because the former does quite a bit of damage and gives me defense. Of course I'm going to use a grab after Hyper Shot, because it's more damage.
Some classes, you don't have to grab as much, such as Aegis Knight, because he has a ton of other things going for him.
But really, it's all up to the individual how they play. Generally, newb rank - general ranked players do something that's decent damaging and easy to pull off, which is why you often see players either 1) Spamming their level 1 skill, 2) Air attacking a lot, or 3) Grabbing a lot. Those are easy and do decent damage. Are they the best things to do? In some rare situations, yes, it's the best thing to do, but generally, it isn't the best. Not because it's bad to do, but because it's done SO MUCH, it's easy to get your way out of it.
When you fight someone and they run around, usually dashing into you and grabbing, you should know that they're probably going to grab a ton during the match. The problem is, most of the people who complain don't bother changing their fighting tactics against these people when they really should. Spam can be surprising at first, but it's really easy to find a way out of it because it's the same thing over and over and over again.
So no, grabbing does not dwarf all others. While you'll probably be able to beat medium players by just grabbing all over the place, not only could you beat the same medium players with other great tactics, but you won't have a chance at winning if you try to spam grab against pro players.
Also, SSBB has so many other things; different types of air attacks, different types of ground attacks, smash attacks, specials, and items. In SSBB, there usually isn't a one thing that somebody over uses in a battle because there's too much stuff to overuse one thing.
But to a point, I agree with cronnoponno; if we deleted everything that some people deemed, "CHEAP" and "UNFAIR" because they didn't know how to beat it, then this game would really suck.
cronnoponno:I remember back than when I was a noob I'd stereotype grabbers that way. Now you stereotype people who actually wanna FIGHT IN PVP besides being grabbed to death and be dead in less than 5 mins (yes that has happened to me because I was more or less grabbed to death and I couldn't even move)Seriously guys How would Tia fight in Lunia online if they removed air combos? Has nothing to do with grabs in GC, this isn't overpowered and it's a different gameHow would mage pures PK in runescape if they took away ancient spells?!? Runescape fails it has no fun. and even if it did, mages need spells...IE Arme. You don't use grab to PK here. most of the rest of your arguement is killed here. How would an xbow lire be able to kill ANYTHING without grab? it's called arrows? and Specials? and also Xbow is hardest to grab with in game...How would YOU kill a Lire without grab? dodge arrows and attack them?How would YOU use Arme if you couldn't grab?(yeah you hypocrites just LOVE to spam stone curse as if it's the most freaking usefull skill, but when you start facing pros, prepare to do 22 damage each ) This may be true but Arme is a very versatile characters, she has many moves that can stun and do lots of damage. Earth Force + Landscamper anyone?How would you use your favorate bandwagon characters Lass and Ronan without grabs? Scratch Ronan, Ronan is the ONLY character that would do SLIGHTLY good if he couldn't grab. You sound like a Ronan fanboy..and most people don't wanna try to learn lass and be good with his acutal combos/speicals, aside from his 2 bar as 1st job his 1 and 2 bar in Assassin and who knows in DA. And I've seen Pro Elesis and Lire and Arme and Ronan who kill without grabs. So Argument shut down. I'll bet half of these grab complaints are coming from Ronan users themselves. They're so overpowered and noob-friendly that you don't even need to adapt to grab, when you can just use infinite sword and divine slash the entire match. I hate Ronan these grab complaints are from people who play fighting games where grabbing is a SUPPLEMENT to fighting..it doesn't do a lot of damage and it just looks flashy and helps to end a move like an air combo. It's not supposed to be a "be all-end all" move like it is here. And Ronan is NOT overpowered..he's actually underpowered to me. and EVERYONE one bar spams with EVERYONE except lire..oh wait she is barely played anyway since 99% of the rooms say "NO LIRE" In gunz, how BORING would it be if there were no ''butterfly'' tricks and all that crap? That actually takes skill to learn and also has no relevance to grabbing in PVP. On halo, what if you just took out every explosive weapon there was because you deemed them ''cheap''? explosive weapons aren't "Cheap" because they can miss. Grabs in GC cannot unless they are cancelled...which with the lag of GC and individual players is hard to do. Seriously, lets just turn pvp into a beauty salon What does this have to contribute to anything. PVP is supposed to be fun not a place where we show off armor and stats and beat up people..oh wait that's EXACTLY what PVP is! I heard this quote somewhere on the forum ''Hi! I'm paper! Rock can stay just the way it is but scissors is just to powerfull! It needs to be nerfed''! That has nothing to do with grabbing in PVP..that has to do with characters and their "overpoweredness" Most people WILL agree that grabs mostly do a little more damage than they really are supposed to...espeically when levels aren't equal, which is 80% of All PVP matches, since everyone now knows level = grab damage. This game would have NO variety in it, NO killing, NO skill involved in it, no ANYTHING. This game would be really really REALLY dull if it had no grabs. That's a lie. People would actually combo and skill chain which takes a LOT more skill than >Z. You just don't wanna say that you wasted your time learning 2902030 different ways to grab and abuse grabbing and you can't do anything else. I really wanna see what you do in a dungeon. OH WAIT YOU CAN'T because you wasted your time in PVP all this time. Just so ya know..Dungeoning takes a a hell of a lot more skill than PVP almost ever will. What if in fire emblem, you took out all mages in it because they kill your generals to fast? Irrelevant. What if you took out lords because they're to strong and cheap? Irrelevant This game would be flat out black and white if that happened, and it would be REALLY boring, and not even worth playing. Quit, we won't miss ya. You can say you hate grabs now, but come a few months, when you actually stop sucking and LEARN how to play, you'll see it differently. As I Said before, there are many people who are pro and can win without using one grab, and if they do they do it to end a combo, they don't waste time doing air grabs, delay grabs, lag grabs, double triple quadrillion grabs. all that is a waste of time..all we really need to learn is that you are weak in PVP and we need to learn how to beat grabbers like you easily. I would know this because I went through the noob phase to, I used to think grab was absoloutely skilless and cheap. In fact, half of us did. there are many of us that still do. and I went through the noob phase and people didn't abuse grabbing like they did now when I was a noob..PVP was FUN back then.Seriously, I could think of a million more rhetorical questions, but dang guys. This ISN'T super smash brothers brawl, grab spamming TAKES A SIGNIFIGANT AMOUNT OF SKILL TO DO. If you don't like grabbing, go back to your laggy ass wifi matches with your no-grab rules. I hope you have fun taking out that shield spammer when grab becomes prohibited. People use grabs here in GC like Super Smash Bros..which is the problem. It TAKES SKILL To do grabs in SSB. It doesn't here...with lag grabs are SUPER easy to do..that's why so many legitimate players quit PVP, because it becomes unfun. Grab Spam does NOT take skill and you just become an easy target for pros to destory and us real players to laugh at. and seriously who shield spams? Shields break in Brawl anyway and you get dizzy. And also in SSB is easier to die without grabs hell falling off the stage is more prominient than grab deaths. that's why 80% of GC plays at Gorge and Babel..and smash attacks > Grabs anyday. Sorry if I repeated what some said already but I just really had to stop the ignorance around here.
Now you stereotype people who actually wanna FIGHT IN PVP besides being grabbed to death and be dead in less than 5 mins (yes that has happened to me because I was more or less grabbed to death and I couldn't even move)
How would Tia fight in Lunia online if they removed air combos? Has nothing to do with grabs in GC, this isn't overpowered and it's a different game
How would mage pures PK in runescape if they took away ancient spells?!? Runescape fails it has no fun. and even if it did, mages need spells...IE Arme. You don't use grab to PK here. most of the rest of your arguement is killed here.
How would an xbow lire be able to kill ANYTHING without grab? it's called arrows? and Specials? and also Xbow is hardest to grab with in game...
How would YOU kill a Lire without grab? dodge arrows and attack them?
How would YOU use Arme if you couldn't grab?(yeah you hypocrites just LOVE to spam stone curse as if it's the most freaking usefull skill, but when you start facing pros, prepare to do 22 damage each ) This may be true but Arme is a very versatile characters, she has many moves that can stun and do lots of damage. Earth Force + Landscamper anyone?
How would you use your favorate bandwagon characters Lass and Ronan without grabs? Scratch Ronan, Ronan is the ONLY character that would do SLIGHTLY good if he couldn't grab. You sound like a Ronan fanboy..and most people don't wanna try to learn lass and be good with his acutal combos/speicals, aside from his 2 bar as 1st job his 1 and 2 bar in Assassin and who knows in DA. And I've seen Pro Elesis and Lire and Arme and Ronan who kill without grabs. So Argument shut down.
I'll bet half of these grab complaints are coming from Ronan users themselves. They're so overpowered and noob-friendly that you don't even need to adapt to grab, when you can just use infinite sword and divine slash the entire match. I hate Ronan these grab complaints are from people who play fighting games where grabbing is a SUPPLEMENT to fighting..it doesn't do a lot of damage and it just looks flashy and helps to end a move like an air combo. It's not supposed to be a "be all-end all" move like it is here. And Ronan is NOT overpowered..he's actually underpowered to me. and EVERYONE one bar spams with EVERYONE except lire..oh wait she is barely played anyway since 99% of the rooms say "NO LIRE"
In gunz, how BORING would it be if there were no ''butterfly'' tricks and all that crap? That actually takes skill to learn and also has no relevance to grabbing in PVP.
On halo, what if you just took out every explosive weapon there was because you deemed them ''cheap''? explosive weapons aren't "Cheap" because they can miss. Grabs in GC cannot unless they are cancelled...which with the lag of GC and individual players is hard to do.
Seriously, lets just turn pvp into a beauty salon What does this have to contribute to anything. PVP is supposed to be fun not a place where we show off armor and stats and beat up people..oh wait that's EXACTLY what PVP is!
''Hi! I'm paper! Rock can stay just the way it is but scissors is just to powerfull! It needs to be nerfed''! That has nothing to do with grabbing in PVP..that has to do with characters and their "overpoweredness" Most people WILL agree that grabs mostly do a little more damage than they really are supposed to...espeically when levels aren't equal, which is 80% of All PVP matches, since everyone now knows level = grab damage.
This game would have NO variety in it, NO killing, NO skill involved in it, no ANYTHING. This game would be really really REALLY dull if it had no grabs. That's a lie. People would actually combo and skill chain which takes a LOT more skill than >Z. You just don't wanna say that you wasted your time learning 2902030 different ways to grab and abuse grabbing and you can't do anything else. I really wanna see what you do in a dungeon. OH WAIT YOU CAN'T because you wasted your time in PVP all this time. Just so ya know..Dungeoning takes a a hell of a lot more skill than PVP almost ever will.
What if in fire emblem, you took out all mages in it because they kill your generals to fast? Irrelevant.
What if you took out lords because they're to strong and cheap? Irrelevant
This game would be flat out black and white if that happened, and it would be REALLY boring, and not even worth playing. Quit, we won't miss ya.
You can say you hate grabs now, but come a few months, when you actually stop sucking and LEARN how to play, you'll see it differently. As I Said before, there are many people who are pro and can win without using one grab, and if they do they do it to end a combo, they don't waste time doing air grabs, delay grabs, lag grabs, double triple quadrillion grabs. all that is a waste of time..all we really need to learn is that you are weak in PVP and we need to learn how to beat grabbers like you easily.
there are many of us that still do. and I went through the noob phase and people didn't abuse grabbing like they did now when I was a noob..PVP was FUN back then.
Seriously, I could think of a million more rhetorical questions, but dang guys. This ISN'T super smash brothers brawl, grab spamming TAKES A SIGNIFIGANT AMOUNT OF SKILL TO DO. If you don't like grabbing, go back to your laggy ass wifi matches with your no-grab rules. I hope you have fun taking out that shield spammer when grab becomes prohibited. People use grabs here in GC like Super Smash Bros..which is the problem. It TAKES SKILL To do grabs in SSB. It doesn't here...with lag grabs are SUPER easy to do..that's why so many legitimate players quit PVP, because it becomes unfun. Grab Spam does NOT take skill and you just become an easy target for pros to destory and us real players to laugh at. and seriously who shield spams? Shields break in Brawl anyway and you get dizzy. And also in SSB is easier to die without grabs hell falling off the stage is more prominient than grab deaths. that's why 80% of GC plays at Gorge and Babel..and smash attacks > Grabs anyday.
Sorry if I repeated what some said already but I just really had to stop the ignorance around here.
EDIT: To the end of Avarice's post, I do believe that with this community and it's horrid stubborn personality, we wouldn't HAVE A game if we deleted everything everyone thought was CHEAP and OVERPOWERED. Most in PVP think everyone is overpowered but Elesis (with her skill tree she will be sadly) and Ronan (Who is now overpowered in their minds with a 3rd and 4th job) So we won't be able to play as anyone and it won't even be a game. see what i've said to see my disagreements and my agreements.
You know, it's not that grab is so spammed because it's so uber strong. It's just all the lag. When I'm fighting a lagger that I cannot hit at all with normal combos (that won't chain for most characters if it didn't hit), my skills miss all the time because the lagger simply runs off and after 10 minutes of such a fight even the most "I do not grab, grab is for noobs" player would start grabbing the lagger. It's not the grab that is broken, it's just that grab is the ONLY skill that happens to work.
Yeah, I know how it sounds, but think about it for a second. In normal fights, with no lag at all, a normal combo would be easily pulled out, skills wouldn't get interrupted by grabs and our attacks would hit a target that tries to run away. Grabbing would be used only to chain attacks that way.
Now what happens when we add lag? Normal Combo? Does not work. Air attacks and Dash attacks? Does not work. Skills? Not working. Grabs? Yes, finally it hits!
As you see, since we cannot get rid of lag, what about upgrading other attacks?That damage would always register when you hit. If someone runs of, but you hit him on your screen, he gets the damage even in far away, get it? Grabs do that. If we made skills cancel through grabs (the graber is invincible but he does not interrrupt skill) like when grabs clash, we wouldn't need to grab ourself. We would just execute a special. We could that way actually hit. Of course laggers will abuse the lag like now with grabs, but at least people would notice that it's not the GRAB that is the problem, but the LAG.
Grab is the only skills that WORKS. That's why people say it should get nerfed or disabled. Because it's the only way to deal some sure damage. Don't blame people that they use something that works. If you suck at grab defense, no wonder people grab you. Why people hate Lire? Because they don't know how to use arrow defence and how to in against her arrows. Seriously, talking about grab disabling is like saying "Lire is overpowered because she has arrows! The Archer should just take the Bow and smack away with it, that way it would be fair and we still have an archer in the game!" You see what I mean? The no-Lire rooms are made by whiners who ignore the problem instead of finding a solution. Do not, I say, DO NOT give them another way to reduce fighting styles just because they whine!
So far I have faith in our GMs that they will NOT remove fighting styles just because a bunch of loosers whine. Imagine what would happen if GM's said "yes" to all the whiners. We would have tournaments with rules "You must enter with a melee character. No Lire/Amy/Arme is alllowed." After some more whines we would have a tourney "Only Elesis 1st job allowed. Grabbing results in instant ban of the grabber. Using a skill more than 1 time in battle results in a ban. Jumping more than twice and attacking results in a ban. Lagging results in a ban. Dash attacking more than once results in a ban." We would have a game where Elesis walks around, using only the Z combo. -.-
Grabbing is a part of the game, live with it. Use a long weapon or a Lire if you wanna have some range. Grabs cannot be used unless someone gets close to you. All you need to do is just learn HOW to defend against grabs. You can grab yourself or use a long weapons (spear, glaive), you can jump attack, you can shoot, you can use long distance magic, or run wildly around. There are strategies on how to avoid grab. Just because you are an easy target it does NOT allow you to make the rules that benefit you.
I'm a grabber myself. I spam Grab -> Skill attack -> Jump Attack -> Grab -> Skill -> Finisher combo and I don't whine if someone wins by pure grab. I waste a lot of time in PvP. I'm also incredibly good in dungeons. Dungeons are way to easy till Xenia, so don't spout nonsense that PvP with THINKING enemies is easier than a monster with a programmed pattern. PvP requires skill, because in a battle it's skill vs skill, unlike dungeons were is know-how vs pattern. -.- I can easily solo Champion Mode Gaikoz (my favourite boss toy) because all you need to do is stand near to him, make him go into super armor that way, dash behind him, slaughter him. In PvP an enemy is moving, gets new ideas and can suprise you.
So I'll say it again. Just because you suck and are an incredibly easy target for a grab attack does NOT prove your point that grabs are overpowered. I will spam grabs like mad until a GM says it's bannable offense. Until then, grabs are a legit, and not less Pro way of dealing with players than a simple ZZZZ^Z combo
Sorry for the harsh words, but I'm completely blunt about this type of "Nerf the move that kills me!" topics.
Grabbing is just some part of the game to people's advantage. What is wrong with it?! Nothing! So deal with it you noob!
I wonder if they should add Grabs to Dungeon Modes...
Curia: You know, it's not that grab is so spammed because it's so uber strong. It's just all the lag. When I'm fighting a lagger that I cannot hit at all with normal combos (that won't chain for most characters if it didn't hit), my skills miss all the time because the lagger simply runs off and after 10 minutes of such a fight even the most "I do not grab, grab is for noobs" player would start grabbing the lagger. It's not the grab that is broken, it's just that grab is the ONLY skill that happens to work. Yeah, I know how it sounds, but think about it for a second. In normal fights, with no lag at all, a normal combo would be easily pulled out, skills wouldn't get interrupted by grabs and our attacks would hit a target that tries to run away. Grabbing would be used only to chain attacks that way.Now what happens when we add lag? Normal Combo? Does not work. Air attacks and Dash attacks? Does not work. Skills? Not working. Grabs? Yes, finally it hits!As you see, since we cannot get rid of lag, what about upgrading other attacks?That damage would always register when you hit. If someone runs of, but you hit him on your screen, he gets the damage even in far away, get it? Grabs do that. If we made skills cancel through grabs (the graber is invincible but he does not interrrupt skill) like when grabs clash, we wouldn't need to grab ourself. We would just execute a special. We could that way actually hit. Of course laggers will abuse the lag like now with grabs, but at least people would notice that it's not the GRAB that is the problem, but the LAG.Grab is the only skills that WORKS. That's why people say it should get nerfed or disabled. Because it's the only way to deal some sure damage. Don't blame people that they use something that works. If you suck at grab defense, no wonder people grab you. Why people hate Lire? Because they don't know how to use arrow defence and how to in against her arrows. Seriously, talking about grab disabling is like saying "Lire is overpowered because she has arrows! The Archer should just take the Bow and smack away with it, that way it would be fair and we still have an archer in the game!" You see what I mean? The no-Lire rooms are made by whiners who ignore the problem instead of finding a solution. Do not, I say, DO NOT give them another way to reduce fighting styles just because they whine! So far I have faith in our GMs that they will NOT remove fighting styles just because a bunch of loosers whine. Imagine what would happen if GM's said "yes" to all the whiners. We would have tournaments with rules "You must enter with a melee character. No Lire/Amy/Arme is alllowed." After some more whines we would have a tourney "Only Elesis 1st job allowed. Grabbing results in instant ban of the grabber. Using a skill more than 1 time in battle results in a ban. Jumping more than twice and attacking results in a ban. Lagging results in a ban. Dash attacking more than once results in a ban." We would have a game where Elesis walks around, using only the Z combo. -.-Grabbing is a part of the game, live with it. Use a long weapon or a Lire if you wanna have some range. Grabs cannot be used unless someone gets close to you. All you need to do is just learn HOW to defend against grabs. You can grab yourself or use a long weapons (spear, glaive), you can jump attack, you can shoot, you can use long distance magic, or run wildly around. There are strategies on how to avoid grab. Just because you are an easy target it does NOT allow you to make the rules that benefit you. I'm a grabber myself. I spam Grab -> Skill attack -> Jump Attack -> Grab -> Skill -> Finisher combo and I don't whine if someone wins by pure grab. I waste a lot of time in PvP. I'm also incredibly good in dungeons. Dungeons are way to easy till Xenia, so don't spout nonsense that PvP with THINKING enemies is easier than a monster with a programmed pattern. PvP requires skill, because in a battle it's skill vs skill, unlike dungeons were is know-how vs pattern. -.- I can easily solo Champion Mode Gaikoz (my favourite boss toy) because all you need to do is stand near to him, make him go into super armor that way, dash behind him, slaughter him. In PvP an enemy is moving, gets new ideas and can suprise you. So I'll say it again. Just because you suck and are an incredibly easy target for a grab attack does NOT prove your point that grabs are overpowered. I will spam grabs like mad until a GM says it's bannable offense. Until then, grabs are a legit, and not less Pro way of dealing with players than a simple ZZZZ^Z comboSorry for the harsh words, but I'm completely blunt about this type of "Nerf the move that kills me!" topics.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS.
Notice that you don't grab nearly as much when you're facing someone who doesn't lag than when you face someone who does lag. That's because your other attacks work; you can actually combo someone who doesn't lag, you can actually air/dash attack someone who doesn't lag, you can actually trap someone with a skill who doesn't lag. The only attack that gives a guarranteed hit on someone who lags is grabbing.
Let's face it, not very many people have perfect latency in this game. Maybe like 10% just purely don't lag. Around 40% lag, but not to the point where it's unable to kill them; you can still combo, etc., It hardly deters basic gameplay. Maybe then about 45% of people lag to the point where when you attack them, they flinch a half second later clear away from you. They're the ones who's grabs delay; not severely, but you'll be sprinting away and be pulled back into the grab. Then about 5% of players lag so much that it's just impossible to play with them.
The problem really isn't grabbing as much as it is lagging. Personally, I don't even see grabbing as a problem; if you hate it, just find ways to escape it. It really isn't inescapable; you can either grab back to counter out of it and wait for a pet attack, or you could just keep your distance from an avid grabber. Change up your tactics. Don't expect to use good one tactic on all types of people and win every time.
Also, the reason like 98% of Lass 1st jobs don't use his other attacks as much as his grab? Yeah, he does have some decent combos other than his delay grab, but
1) Again, the lag problem. Combos are hard to initiate.
2) His other combos? It's not like they're things other characters don't have. His combos and physical attack aren't as strong as other classes, so even though you could be a very pro Lass 1st job without grabbing, you could be facing an Elesis 1st job with less skill than you who would still beat you, simply because of the character.
3) And his delay grab just flat out does more damage. Why would you not do something that's high damaging and easy?
I don't see why everyone says that grabbing dwarfs all other attacks. I mean, it would be nice if the damage of grab was lessened by 25%, so it would be 75% as damaging as what it is now. But really, it's very easy to put up with grabs now. The reaction towards them really surprise me.
It's just like with Aegis Knights. I expected everyone to say "NO AK" because they can block; instead, everybody says, "NO AK" because people don't use him right and just spam Divine Slash (a tactic that is very avoidable and very easy to kill).
If you've played runescape, everyone complains that ancients are to powerful, they have spells that do 20+ damage, freeze you for 20 seconds, and are spammable. Everyone complains that ancients are way to strong, and asks them to be nerfed, just like grab, they feel they can't do ''anything'' to win against it. If you knew anything about runescape, you'd see the similiarity.
Yes, her arrows do SO much damage, and people LOVE to walk right into it right? A lot of xbow lires need to jump stun then grab to do some decent damage. Another way to do any good damage would be to spam trampoline kick.
You fail, 800% for even saying that.... -_- I can't even go into detail about how much fail this post was.
Stone curse does the WORST damage in the game(when you fight people who know how to tap the left+right direction), reverse gravity is good, yes, but would you go about spamming that? You'll get yelled at just as much for grabbing. Being a pro Arme, you'd never really be able to do anything against any pros without grabbing. If moose couldn't grab me, I'd kill him so fast, if Zhon couldn't grab(CURSE YOU PRO ARME), he'd be so dead.
If you READ that post, I was actually talking about Ronan NEGATIVELY in that post, how am I a Ronan fan boy for calling him a bandwagon character?
Assasin is good without grabs, if you spam his jump attack, and his crappy first mp bar, and then again, you'll be called a spammer just the same.
Lass's first job was MEANT to grab, there's just NO WAY a Lass would be able to keep up his melee in the presence of another melee character, remove grabs from it, and they'll be completely useless(unless they hit+run, then again, you'll get called a spammer).
You've seen some good players kill without grabs? That means my arguement is down? Sure you see 5 people able to kill, that matches the 50 thousand+ people that play this game, really, that's smart.
Let me tell you something, as a sword master, the only time I can really grab efficiently is to air grab, after doing a combo, and I win a lot at that, but doesn't mean the majority can do this, sword master just has a melee advantage.
''Everyone'' doesn't spam 1 bar, ''everyone'' spams grab, if they can't grab well, they usually rely on 1 mp bars. Lires actually spam their first mp bars quite a bit, haven't you ever went next to one? BIG SHOT, BIG SHOT, BIG SHOT+grab
Ronan was really overpowered, his first mp bar skills offer so much invincibility and power, divine slash spammed 3 times(as soon as you're locked in 1 you're dead if he has 3 mp) will rape you.
Furious rush= Dashes pretty far, hits them even if they're in the air, 2 HIGH damaging slashes, and can be topped off with an air grab(if the Ronan knows what he's doing)
There's so much about Ronan that's overpowered I can't even begin to explain much about it.
Brute shot is one of the gayest weapons in halo 3, it's like a really fast rocket launcher that can be spammed to kill if you can aim.
Gravity hammer= totally hated(and loved by the certain crowd).
What I meant by this was that, ''HI, LETS ALL BE FAIR PLAY AND NOT DO ANYTHING CHEAP, LETS HAVE NO VARIETY IN ANYTHING WE DO, AND NOT GRAB, LETS ALSO TAKE LIRE OUT OF THE GAME''.
Yes it does, if you can own someone when they don't grab, you like them just the way they are, when they can own you with grab, you think it's to powerful.
Yeah, after a million people just said that lag would ruin all combos, you completely say that they'll learn to combo.
This isn't elsword(which had totally ruined pvp, seriously it has gotten really bad), lag is a serious issue here, and many characters are unbalanced and need to grab to ANYTHING efficient to play.
The reason games like elsword don't have grab is because, uhhh, the mages and rangers can MELEE, and they're quite good at it.
It's a rhetorical question, mage>general in fire emblem, and generals are pretty much the kings of tanking and damage. It sucks to have such a big tank to be taken down in 2 hits with magic that bypasses normal defense.
It can be the same as the complaints about grab.
See above.
This wasn't just me, A LOT of people would feel that way, cry more.
Yes, we're weak in pvp, and just try to get grabs to win easily, so we're weak, and skill less, but we win?
So in super smash bros, where you can actually combo, and lag isn't to bad on delay and crap, and grabs are useless.
Here, where this game has second of a delay(or so), where your combos will miss 80% of the time, grabs are to strong because they break that or something?
Shield spamming can be good if you do it right, as soon as an attack hit, guarding it won't damage the shield, and if you're a slo character, you're gonna get OWNED
I gotta go so I couldn't put much thought into my posts, but yeah, I'll check back on it later.
(technical issues doesn't let me quote)
Grabbing is something that should have a choice! Being able to disable grabs would make the game much more fair to the people with bad connections to other players.It causes it to look like you grab someone standing still on your screen,but on the other screen,you get glitched into person's grab from halfway into a skill/across the arena!
Bottom line, without grabs, a person has to rely on pure skill!
But,if you like grabs,you can just turn grabs on in your own room!
A choice in it is fair!
P.S.
Zhon,your over-reacting! Basic things like combos should stay the same!
Made this account a few years ago when the game came out, im not a kid anymore, lol
Kid2: Grabbing is something that should have a choice! Being able to disable grabs would make the game much more fair to the people with bad connections to other players.It causes it to look like you grab someone standing still on your screen,but on the other screen,you get glitched into person's grab from halfway into a skill/across the arena!Bottom line, without grabs, a person has to rely on pure skill!But,if you like grabs,you can just turn grabs on in your own room!A choice in it is fair!P.S.Zhon,your over-reacting! Basic things like combos should stay the same!
you are now a noob for necroing
and so how else are we supposed to hit someone well its laggy
graning isn't the hardest thing to avoid
Lock tha thread