Ah, welcome to the How-To-Beat-Lire guide, wrote by your favourite player, ME! >_> <_< You don't know me? Meh, it doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that some people (most of them perhaps) have trouble beating Lire in PvP simply because they stand out of grabbing range. Guess what? This guide will tell you how to improve your fighting skills and have an actual chance of beating a Lire, no matter if she uses a Bow, Crossbow or Great Bow.
Before you start reading it, I have to point out a few things.1) This guide is NOT for whiners. The tips I give here are not easy at first and require actual practice in PvP to make them effective. If you lose and instead of trying again you spout nonsense like "You spam!" or "Stop Shooting" or "bla bla bla you noob bla bla bla" then this guide won't help you at all.2) Every player has his own style. You might meet a Lire that only shoots at you, you might meet a Melee Arch Ranger, or a serious issue of Grab spamming Lire (like Yours Truly). This means that some tricks will NOT work, while others will be super effective. Get to know your enemy so you can win.3) Never make "no-Lire" rooms. No matter how many tricks you know, they won't work unless practiced long enough.4) After reading this guide you will not become Pro all of a sudden. You must practice the skills in REAL combat, which means you have to prepare for a big, long, and painful streak of loses. Also, remember that Pro Lire users might use tactics and tricks I have never seen before so brace yourself for some unexpected attacks.
Since we have all this, on to the guide!
1. Arrow Defence.Ah, yes. Arrow Defence....Every melee character is equipped with a special ability that allows you to block arrows and receive minimum damage per hit. If you're fighting against a Lire with a melee character, your win chances are exactly equal. Now, some people spout nonsense and say that Arrow Defence is random. Well, random my butt, why doesn't Elesis deflect arrows in Practice Mode? Bacause it's based on skill. Ever noticed that when you dash at a Lire you deflect shots easier than when you're just standing and waiting for mercy? You get my point. Aegis Knight users can prove my theory of not-random Arrow Defence. Just wait for a Lire to shoot at you and don't move. You'll see you get the full impact of shots.
To deflect an arrow, you just need to press Forward (the direction from where the arrow comes, which means Left or Right) when the projectile is almost hitting your character. Easy eh?....what does it mean "almost hitting" you ask? Um...when you see the arrow connecting with the character but it still doesn't deal damage. THAT's "almost hitting". Now, people also noticed that arrows can sometimes get reflected. How do you do that? Well, this is really tricky. You have to press forward AGAIN when you see "Arrow Deflect" on your character. Now, I am 100% sure this is NOT random reflection. I stood for 10 minutes straight pressing forward only once while a Lire was shooting at me. I blocked all the hits but got no reflection. When I tried double forward, it sometimes reflected. It's all skill based, but I bet a true master of arrow deflection would be a real pain for a Lire to fight.
2. Arrow Defence in combat.Now the fun part. How to use this skill in actual combat, plus some tactics based on Arrow Defence. Blocking and reflecting all of the enemy's attacks is the most fun you can have without taking your clothes off. Sounds juicy, eh?
This gets tricky. How to use Arrow Defence in combat effectively? First of, do NOT (I repeat, DO NOT!) chase after a Lire. Deflecting arrows continually is really hard on the run. What's worse, when you block you stop running and stand still for a second. On Gorge of Oath, running like that is deadly when you block a shot and just fall down cause you didn't reach the platform. X-Bow Lires love to just stand and shoot at melee characters on Gorge since you will either die from pure damage or fall trying to reach them. If you don't have a chance to attack because the enemy keeps on shooting, just wait till your MP charges a bit. Sooner or later the Lire will decide to use her special attacks, letting you also use yours.
Basically, there are 3 reasons why chasing after a Lire is bad, namely:1) You cannot block so well on the run, increasing your chances of getting hit.2) You are open for grabs and Arch Ranger's melee attacks.3) If you run at an X-bow head-first, you will get spammed to death or at least pushed back pretty far. You can end up where you started but with less HP, or even get knocked off Gorge of Oath.
...Why do you give me that look? Oh right, I said earlier that while dashing you deflect more often, but now I tell you not to run at a Lire? Well, if you cannot use Arrow Defence intentionally, then rushing at a Lire will allow you to block some hits. It's bad to run after a Lire cause you get a real smacking, but it's better than standing and doing nothing. On the other hand, if you DO KNOW how to use it (practiced a bit, etc.) then standing still will allow you to maintain a better block rate, when you focus and press forward every time an arrow flies at you.
Now, why should a melee just stand and get the hits? Remember that when you're low on health, you can dodge the hits easier when you have some distance. More importantly, when you block arrows you sometimes reflect them back. One of the coolest tricks a melee character can do is to reflect Lire's Big Shot attack. This usually takes out a hell load of HP from the attacker and stuns her at the same time, allowing for a follow-up grab that'll finish her off. Also, while the Lire keeps running circles around you, shooting like mad, evading attacks you never sent and wasting the MP she stored up, you charge your own MP. Lire's own defenses are pretty weak. If you simply wait for your stronger attacks to charge, you might as well 1-hit the pesky shooter after taking only minimal damage.
The hard part of using Arrow Defence is keeping your cool. No matter how much HP you lose, you must maintain your calm and keep deflecting the projectiles. If you rush at Lire, you're dead. If you don't want to get out damaged, reflecting is the key. Reflected arrows deal some really nasty blows to Lires AND stun them. Remember that if you are low on HP and not a master deflecter, evading the hits might be better while you recover HP.
.......You don't want to just stand all day and reflect shots? Well, there are 2 things that you can do aside from blocking.1) If you reflect the arrow, you might try switching to a higher or lower platform. The Lire will usually try to repeat her failed attack, aiming directly at the previous spot. If you run from a higher ground, you will easily take her into a special or a basic combo attack. Afterwards, it's back to reflecting and repeating the tactic. On most begginers it works like a charm.2) Some Lires tend to get nervous when you keep deflecting the arrows. When their MP bar charges to lvl 2, they sometimes get hectic and try to shorten the distance. Since they get into close combat, trying to stomp on you, shoot you from the air or grab you, a simple grab back or a melee combo does the trick. An MP attack planted into their green behinds also tends to get them back to running again. If a Lire shortens the distance on her own, you can counter her easily by just dashing up and attacking normally. Works like a charm for begginers as well. Remember that if the Lire runs away, you have to resume blocking. If you lose your nerve and chase her, you might end up dead. Think of it as bait - don't take it.
Remember that there are certain attacks you cannot block. This is a list of skills that cannot be blocked:1) Arch Ranger's Hyper Shot (it's an arrow, but it's too powerful to block it).2) Arch Ranger's Punch Wind (a melee attack).3) Arch Ranger's Chakra (The explosive blasts hurt like hell. You can evade it with a 1 MP bar skill easily).4) Crossbowman Lire's Harpy (The Harpy Hunt Shot, shouted as Dive Falling, will make a harpy fall from the sky. The bolts can be blocked, but the harpy will deal critical damage if it hits you).5) Crossbowman Lire's Trampoline Kick (Shouted as Bear Attack, is a melee hit.)6) Archer's Flame Arrow (This explosive shot is in fact a bomb rarther than an arrow...).
Also be warned that AR has melee attacks. Begginer Lires will rarely use them, but some really good ones might hurt you badly by fighting back in melee just like that. Use caution when close.
Nothing more I can say about Arrow Defence here. You must practice it if you wanna be successful, and remember "No-Lire" rooms will NOT help you get better at beating Lires.
3. Team battles with Lires.So, you have a team and there's a Lire on the enemy side? This one will be tricky, as in a Team battle, Lire's function is not really to kill, but to stun the enemy. Now here are the basic tactics you might like to use.
Evading > Deflecting. Since the Lire's melee team mates will want to impale you on their weapons or smash into the ground with grabs, standing and deflecting hits won't do you any good. In this case, you have to evade the hits and block the ones that accidently reach you. The main problem will be approaching a Lire. Most people say Lire's "camp" but that's a poor way of getting Lire to step out of her corner. I bet calling her a "spammer/noob" won't help either. Not to mention you are pretty vulnerable when the chat is active.... Well, you either have to rely on your ranged friends to deal with the shooter or use one of the special stun moves of certain melee characters. Thief Lass's Kunai Knives, Dragon Knight Ronan's Glaive Dive, Ryan's Axe Smash are good starter attacks that break the Lire's shooting rate for a second. Use that time to grab them. Yes, grabbing is a good, although abused move in the game. Do not hesitate to grab your opponent just because someone says it's a noob tactic. Grabs can be easily counter-grabbed to completely avoid their damage. Besides, smart Lires will surely try to grab you after being stunned. That way you either grab them or at least avoid their retaliation.
Always gang up on the Lire. If a team mate is pursuing a Lire, approach her from the other side. If your friend is running from the upper ledge, you take the lower ledge. That way the Lire cannot stop both attackers and at least one of them will get a combo hit on her. If the Lire is running badly all the time, grab her. Grabs are the only thing that breaks lags in the game, so if you're fighitng a lagger-runner Lire, abuse grabbing to force contact and damage. Maybe that will teach them to get a better connection....
If you have your own Lire or an Arme on your side, stand in front of her to deflect incoming arrows. Arrows deal very painful damage to those without Arrow Defence. This way you can stop enemy assaults while allowing your own ranged fighter to get the enemy down. Also, cover your Lire against melee attackers. A Jump Attack is usually enough to bring an upcoming melee down so your Lire can stun them. When your Lire attacks, you can join in with your own melee combo or grab. As a Warlock, the Sylph Reflective Shield will be enough to cover your shooting friend from enemy Lires.
When fighting on Gorge of Oath, if a Lire is spamming shots at you so you cannot approach her, don't try to jump to her. You might end up dead. Deflect the arrows, one of your team mates might come and take advantage of a busy Lire. And trust me, it does happen and it hurts badly. Lires hate a Blade Buster thrusted right into their butt. ><
4. Advanced Team Battle tactics.I strongly advise to use them only with your trusted team members. Random people usually lack the synch to use them, but I don't say they can't. If you are lucky enough that 2 Pros join your team you might put this to good use. While in team battles, do not leave a room after suffering 1 loss. Well...unless your enemies badly lag (like...teleporting around...). >> For your convinience I gave these tactics short names.
1) Twin Combo Strike - If the enemy is running, approach from the sides and grab the enemy. After he is down (if it's not a counter hit) you both launch a 1st grade MP attack. This is done using either Elesis 1st job or Ronan 2nd and 3rd job (sword skill). If you have more than 1 MP bar, repeat the non-knocking down combo hits from the attack if the enemy has lots of HP. This is really easy and takes down a hell lot of HP in mere seconds. It also earns extra cool points.2) Meat Shield - When a Lire is only standing still and shooting, as a melee character you rush until a short distance and block her hits while a fellow fighter comes up with a strong MP attack. That way he cannot be countered and will deliver a really nasty blow. Usable with any melee character + any MP charged partner. I recommend Elesis and Ryan to be the Meat Shield as they have high HP and defense. Aegis Knight can go as well, because he can block attacks.3) Destiny Bond - Only for cash users. >> When the enemy kills you but your Ice Pixie has her Ice Storm charged, use it. She will freeze the killer thus allowing your team mate to avenge you. Your team mate should stick close for this to work.
The amount of tactics will increase as I develop new ones in PvP. If you want to, join me in it. I do not add theoretical tactics though, only the ones that were succesfully used in combat. If you have one of your own that you use a lot in PvP, you can tell me about it here. I welcome strategies.
5. Arme combat.Arme has no Arrow Defence, so fighting with her is a bit trickier. Since I'm such a sweetheart, I'll share some of my tricks that I use as an Arme against Lires.
First of all, Fireball spam hurts. 1 or 2 fireballs are not bad against a Lire, but if you use it in succesion, the Lire will point at you and take down more than 50% HP at once. Ouch...Usually a good way is to find yourself a spot where there are ledges above and under you. Charge MP and evade all shots by jumping or falling. Shadow Dash is also useful to evade. If you have a Warlock, simply reflecting arrows with Sylph is enough to make the opponent cry. Be careful though cause Pro Lires will not be caught by that and some are good enough to shoot through the shield. If a Lire comes too close, a grab attack is usually enough to make them run back.
Now for your means of attacking. As a Mage, Stone Curse is one of the best, cheapest ways of dealing with Lire. Dashing up and Cursing them is usually enough to deal with begginers. Pro Lire will evade so prepare for immediate run away/grab just in case. Also, Double Cursing might prove efficient sometimes but only if you evade the enemy attack while delivering your own like that. Lightning Bolt is also very very very good againt Lires as it has an incredible range and deals good damage. Abuse it. Meteor and FireStorm are excellent one-shot-kills, but your enemy might evade them with an MP attack. Use only if you are sure it suprises them.
As an Alchemist, you might want to try throwing bombs all around the place, but Cloud Kill is awesome if the enemy is caught by it. Also, Cloud Kill + Cure is deadly for almost everyone as it drains HP quickly and stops the enemy in place to make them suffer in the poison gas longer. Approach like a Mage but use Cloud Kill instead of Stone Curse. In cases of having full MP you can create an item or use Big Bomb. The Item you get might be Reflect, which will pawn a Lire for a few seconds. Big Bomb, if planned carefully, will 1-hit the enemy. To use it effectively you must do it as a suprise attack. Since your dash is not enough to charge 3 bars, you either have to charge while the enemy is getting back after a hit, or first grab Lire, charge and release after Lire gets up, ready to shoot. Your team mates, if you have them, can also make the Lire busy. Big Bomb fits perfectly with the Meat Shield strategy so if you have a reliable friend on the team, abuse it.
As a Warlock, it becomes easier to PvP Lire, but don't get cocky. Mastering the Sylph Shield is one way of making your enemy cry, but remember that you have to take caution as Lires might find a way to bypass it or just engage in melee combat. When approaching the enemy, you do it always like a Mage. Arme's Shadow Dash rocks in close combat and allows for easy grabs once you get the hang of it. When your HP is reduced to less than 50%, Fire Ring might come handy but remember to keep evading. You have high defense, but you are still not invincible. Use Tornado to stun the enemy and follow by a dash->grab. On Gorge of Oath the Tornado can blow the enemy of the cliff. Abuse it. For commands, ZZ^^ if the enemy is at good range, ZZ>> on long stages to cast Ice Balls, Z<< to reflect enemy missiles, Z>> if the enemy is above you. Use Dash attacks if the enemy is busy killing your friend with normal shots. That's it I guess.
Remember to synch with your team. As Arme you might need a meat shield but remember to use your distance attacks to help them in combat. As a Warlock, provide some cover, especially on Gorge of Oath. Shielding a team mate Lire is also one way of supporting the whole party with good, constant fire power.
6. FAQ.
Q.- Is this the final version of the guide?A.- No, the guide will be updated once new strategies are developed.
Q.- Since you wrote this, are you a Pro at fighting Lires?A.- Not really, cause I only PvPed with Lires up to lvl 45. Yet, this guide is meant to give some basic tricks for PvP. It's not a You-Beat-Them-All guide. Besides, all players have different styles and can bypass your tactic or use something I haven't seen yet. I'll update the guide once I see more good Lires.
Q.- This guide sucks, I still can't beat Lires.A.- Well, excuuuuuse me that your skills suck. >> Write a better one.
Q.- I found a typo/mistake/etc. in your guide.A.- English is my second language. Tell me the typo here and I'll correct it.
Ronan Rumble!!! Yay for new signature! Oh yeah.....I don't main Ronan XD.
©Nizari
ur guide is like 2 essays. >.> o well i'll just skim through it.
Edit: I only read like the first 2 sections of it ._. not bad so far. i likes ur guide. make a guide on spammers :] that'll really stop people if they get keep on getting pwned wen they spam :D
IGN:Status
Woahlooong 'o'
Some of these tips are pretty decent, but I wonder at the accuracy or efficiency of the others >.>' Such as... The whole arrow reflect thing.
Still, very nice for your 3rd post. lol
Artist looking for criticism, improvement, or just plain fun? Click here.
i would like to see this used to kill me.
now, this guide needs alot of work. somethings to add;
when ARs get to melee, run. thier down double is nasty, and can be followed by a grab, which takes equal level down to the point where one strike will kill. try to stay below or on top of them, probobly below, so they do not hit you with a chakra. chakra is impossible to evade if they use it on close range. white wind is nasty, an autoknockout if followed by a grab.
oh, yes, and destiny bond is obviosly taken from pokemon-- the name, that is.
99% of teens would die if myspace had a system failure and was destroyed. Copy-paste this into your signiture if you are one of the 1% that would die laughing.sabreal made the lire emoticons.
Well, I wrote that I only fought Lire's up to lvl 45. I've yet to see a decent Lire in Pvp. If you wanna fight me, my in-game name is Curia. I would love to see a good ranged fighter.
About the titles, perhaps it is taken from it. When I was still young and beautiful I used to play the card game for it with my maniac cousin. Maybe the name stuck in my head. If I'm not mistaken, Chakra does no initial hit, only the blast. Unlike an Archer that uses the arrow rain to do a bad multihit on the person directly above you. And I gotta admit, punch wind is deadly if combined with a grab. I use it myself as a Lire. >>
Well, I'll update the guide once I get more tricks from actuall combat experience. You are welcome to fight with me in PvP. ^_^
Lawl, this doesn't cover most ''pro lires'', than again they're pretty impossible to beat.
Nice tips though, this guide taught me ''arrow reflect'' because I never bothered to look up how to do it XD
JINS WHITE DEFLOWER TECHNIQUE!
chakra does 200+ damage if not cought in blast, 500+ damage if cought in blast.
i myself am only a level 31 arch ranger.
Ahem, if you tell me the guide doesn't provide support against Pro Lires then allow me to quote myself.
4) After reading this guide you will not become Pro all of a sudden. You must practice the skills in REAL combat, which means you have to prepare for a big, long, and painful streak of loses. Also, remember that Pro Lire users might use tactics and tricks I have never seen before so brace yourself for some unexpected attacks.
It was right at the start of the guide dude. I clearly stated that Pro Lires (the ones that are truly pros) will use tactics that I might've never seen. I only fought Lires up to lvl 45, so if I actually never had enough luck to fight a good Lire, I wrote a guide how to fight the usual ones. If you are such a pro, how about a fight? I'd love to actually fight a decent Lire finally. I'll develope counter attacks to strategies used by pros and then I'll add them to the guide.
About Chakra....The initial attack (the one were Lire shoots out a lot of arrows to the sky) does no damage. The Blast Wave that comes down is the one that deals damage. After the wave hits the ground the shots explode for massive damage. That's why I said the initial hit doesn't deal damage. Evading Chakra is actually really easy. A 1 MP special is enough to dodge the blast. That's why Arch Rangers do better using their 2nd grade as it can easily be chained to a grab.
although of course a Lire could find a way to get around all of these....(stay close to the lire and try to predict there attacks, is ultimately a decent, and simple strategy)
The only thing ever truly accomplished....is accomplished by those who don't care.
Epic, I know
~Ryugen™ Creation~
a good guide, in all.
however, akarkyre is completely wrong. they can dodge, and each one has an unreflectable mana attack that is powerful and can a a ohko.
shooting star is unreflectable.
hhs is unreflectable.
and all arch ranger skills.
ferrikpm:shooting star is reflectable.
shooting star is reflectable.
It's reflectable.
C4d Attempt *_*GGftw!